View Poll Results: If your track budget had you limited to the following options, what would you do?
Track a street 996 GT3 10 weekends/year
79
74.53%
Track a 996 C2 with a few suspension upgrades 15 weekends/year
12
11.32%
Track a race prepped 1st gen Boxster 20 weekends/year
11
10.38%
Other (please ellaborate)
4
3.77%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll
996 C2 vs. 996 GT3
12-10-2007, 04:17 PM
#31
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I voted for Boxster spec car because I know you want to get into the racer's clinic.
As much as I love my GT3, it is a track car and not a race car. There is no way I am going to cup race with it.
The BSR guys are getting pretty fast times around the POC tracks. If/when I get into the racer's clinic I will only do it in a race car.
I saw that the Tech Trix BSR is for sale...
All that said, we'd love to have you in N class so if you get a GT3 that's ok too.
As much as I love my GT3, it is a track car and not a race car. There is no way I am going to cup race with it.
The BSR guys are getting pretty fast times around the POC tracks. If/when I get into the racer's clinic I will only do it in a race car.
I saw that the Tech Trix BSR is for sale...
All that said, we'd love to have you in N class so if you get a GT3 that's ok too.
12-10-2007, 04:28 PM
#32
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
12-10-2007, 04:38 PM
#33
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Nupe, what parts have you broken? I've got 7000+ track and racing miles with only a few minor failures. The 1/2 syncro (problem point in both M96 and GT3). Clutch (lasted 6000 miles, about what a GT3 cup does), a broken A-Arm (same part in both cars) , busted a few sway bar links (GT3 part) and broke a shifter (same part in both cars). I would recommend a few changes for anyone tracking the car... add the center radiator and add the X51 or BK oil pan. Outside of that, the M96 engine has proven very reliable. I've seen as many GT3's "pop" their engine as M96's.
You're the only person I've ever heard suggest that GT3 engine failures occur as/more frequently than M96 failures. Not to put words in your mouth, but that's my interpretation of your statement " I've seen as many GT3's "pop" their engine as M96's".
Last edited by LiveNupe; 12-10-2007 at 06:14 PM.
12-10-2007, 06:01 PM
#34
That lowly old 5500 is probably one of the best road bikes you can buy yet today. The Colnago looks nice, and really is a nice bike, but if you ever cut one apart you would be even happier with your Trek purchase
12-10-2007, 11:21 PM
#36
Instructor
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my .02 cents. have the gt3 and love it on the track, but..... i would like to try the wheel to wheel thing and so that's why i'm building a spec boxster. i missed the december racers clinic, so i'll have to wait till april. in the mean time i'll drive both. you're already fast in the tt's. so i think you should also venture into the race groups.
12-10-2007, 11:45 PM
#37
Nordschleife Master
How can you add a dry sump to the C2? They are all good choices for somebody. If you are driving spec boxters then you need a tow rig and trailer, that adds up. All of this cost money. Porsches are like Harley's no maker what you buy you are never done. The GT3 out of the box will out perform the C2 no matter what you do. It is still a great car. Get what you want. A great driver in a Focus SVT will lap a sh8t driver in a C2.
12-11-2007, 12:06 AM
#38
Nordschleife Master
Not a chance on the GT3 motor failures. First there are (were) only 970 in the U.S so just the numbers would not pencil out.
The block is a GT1 block (there is a reason that Porsche uses this very block for their cup cars)and it is dry sump. The list of the differences is a mile long. Not that the C2 have many issues either. They are just different cars that look the same on the surface.Most drive train issues are driver caused. Missed shifts, rough shifting of the car. That being said, the GT3 design and engineering is different than the C's and unless you make the C2 chassis stiffer put a dry sump motor in the car,put in a different transmission,40/65 limited slip,make the care weight in at 3000 lbs, bigger brakes, more hp and red line at 8,200 you will not have a GT3 and if you do all of that and more you will spend more money than getting one to begin with.
The block is a GT1 block (there is a reason that Porsche uses this very block for their cup cars)and it is dry sump. The list of the differences is a mile long. Not that the C2 have many issues either. They are just different cars that look the same on the surface.Most drive train issues are driver caused. Missed shifts, rough shifting of the car. That being said, the GT3 design and engineering is different than the C's and unless you make the C2 chassis stiffer put a dry sump motor in the car,put in a different transmission,40/65 limited slip,make the care weight in at 3000 lbs, bigger brakes, more hp and red line at 8,200 you will not have a GT3 and if you do all of that and more you will spend more money than getting one to begin with.
12-11-2007, 01:41 AM
#39
Pro
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Nupe, what parts have you broken? I've got 7000+ track and racing miles with only a few minor failures. The 1/2 syncro (problem point in both M96 and GT3). Clutch (lasted 6000 miles, about what a GT3 cup does), a broken A-Arm (same part in both cars) , busted a few sway bar links (GT3 part) and broke a shifter (same part in both cars). I would recommend a few changes for anyone tracking the car... add the center radiator and add the X51 or BK oil pan. Outside of that, the M96 engine has proven very reliable. I've seen as many GT3's "pop" their engine as M96's.
I have never heard of a GT3 lunching there engine?? Examples....
996 is a POS in my opinion...
Maybe your 7,000 track miles were parade laps???? If not you are a lucky man. The cars were not built for the track, they were built for proffit...
Maybe you have special sauce that you put in the car... Or maybe you are just a lucky man...
Either way, a GT3 is ten times the car a 996 will every be.
Have you ever tried one??
12-11-2007, 03:16 AM
#40
Nordschleife Master
Joe: did that strike a nerve? Having 51,000 miles on my car 20,000+ track motor going strong. The first 13,000 were 100% track. The GT3 is solid. The C2 is a good car and motor but it is a great car for what was designed... everyday comfortable driving with twisty road and track use. The GT3 design priorities were track(not racing) uses, occasional street use and back road twisties. You are right in that they really are completely different cars. I remember when I took delivery and traded in my 2002 C2 with all the track goodies. I could not believe the difference. I still can not get over the feeling even after 4 years. Hope to see you at PIR next year.
12-11-2007, 07:01 AM
#41
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I already have a trailer and two SUV's that are capable of towing the car + trailer combo. So from my perspective, it's a sunk cost that I'm not factoring into the equation.
Last edited by LiveNupe; 12-11-2007 at 07:27 AM.
12-11-2007, 11:19 AM
#42
Nordschleife Master
Have fun. I do want to do wheel to wheel. I am keeping the GT3 so one day I will do it. Just do not have the time and money. Maybe in 2 years when the car is paid off. It gives me more time to practice.
12-11-2007, 07:08 PM
#43
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Joe: did that strike a nerve? Having 51,000 miles on my car 20,000+ track motor going strong. The first 13,000 were 100% track. The GT3 is solid. The C2 is a good car and motor but it is a great car for what was designed... everyday comfortable driving with twisty road and track use. The GT3 design priorities were track(not racing) uses, occasional street use and back road twisties. You are right in that they really are completely different cars. I remember when I took delivery and traded in my 2002 C2 with all the track goodies. I could not believe the difference. I still can not get over the feeling even after 4 years. Hope to see you at PIR next year.
The GT3 is such a superior car in all aspects, the two should never be compared in the same breath...
Just my opinion.
12-12-2007, 11:19 AM
#44
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Nupe, what parts have you broken? I've got 7000+ track and racing miles with only a few minor failures. The 1/2 syncro (problem point in both M96 and GT3). Clutch (lasted 6000 miles, about what a GT3 cup does), a broken A-Arm (same part in both cars) , busted a few sway bar links (GT3 part) and broke a shifter (same part in both cars). I would recommend a few changes for anyone tracking the car... add the center radiator and add the X51 or BK oil pan. Outside of that, the M96 engine has proven very reliable. I've seen as many GT3's "pop" their engine as M96's.
my '99 has been very reliable. added the x51 pan just for cheap insurance. the car is at 100K miles with 7000 track miles. i've done 40-50 minute sessions without a hiccup. water temps rarely get beyond 210. oil temp is kept in control with an aux oil cooler and i put in the 3rd radiator.
same suspension as GT3, actually, mine is better than oem gt3 (motons, monoballs, gt3 control arms and sway bars).
i've gutted the interior and now is 200~300 lbs lighter than a gt3. better on tires and brake pads. i could got racing and rub fenders in my low $$$ car.
i've past RS's, gt3s, corvettes, etc. its gratifying passing high HP with 100HP less. it's about the driver but sometimes i do wish it had more power.
i don't feel i need LSD especially being underpowered with all the weight in the rear. the rear wheels just dig in coming out of a tight turn.
i have a feeling that you have already answered your own question though. i don't think anyone will convince you that a c2 is a good track car, especially in the gt3 forum where it is highly biased. get a gt3 and be done with it.
Last edited by karlooz; 12-12-2007 at 11:38 AM.
12-12-2007, 12:12 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
I chose my GT3 for one main reason - the dry sump engine with racing pedigree. As Carlos points out, one can always add GT3 parts or aftermarket upgrades to the 996 platform. But no matter how good the complete system, it is only as good as the lowest common denominator from within that system. IMHO, the 996 is a great car with a flawed engine. Personally, I expect more from Porsche. The good news for 996 owners is that the cost of an engine replacement is 1/3 that of the GT3. The bad news is that probability says your wet sump engine at high cornering speeds will suffer oil starvation.
Just buy a GT3, and be done with it. Prices continue to fall, and the value outweighs the price premium.
My $0.02,
-B
One last thing - why hasn't Ed Newman attempted to defend his earlier post? Perhaps he is off gathering data.... It just doesn't mesh with everything that I have seen and heard.