karlooz

you'd be very surprised at how expensive spec miata has become.

karlooz

You really think the long term cost of ownership is higher??? Is your opinion based on your depreciation assumptions or operating cost estimates???[/QUOTE]

my gut feeling is that an m96 engine IS 3x more likely to grenade. when my engine finally goes i'll be looking into putting a cup motor in

look at the threads regarding cup car maintenance costs. street gt3s are very similar to cups so why wouldn't upkeep be similar?

do you go 10/10ths? are you willing to stuff a 70K car in the wall and walk away? are you going to be racing? if not then the easy decision is to go with a GT3. like many have already said it depends on what your budget allows. would you give up a GT3 for 5 more events/10 days of driving? i would rather do more events but that's just me.

are you also thinking of resale? a car like mine (gutted almost full race car) would be very hard to sell whereas a street gt3 would be relatively easy.

karlooz

the new 2008 rules show there will be a GTB class which are intended for grand am/koni cup 996/997 and street 996/7cars modified beyond "prepared". with the huge amounts of cheap 996s out on the market coupled with ex grand am koni cup cars, GTB could be THE class to be in. remaining wishful, we'll see if it happens.

mooty

yes, you can.
a crash can cost you 10k+ in a top SM. i know that to be a fact not urban legend. and a sub 20k car aint gonna podium in the SF region that's for sure.

someone asked if SM is a good/bad track car.
well, i had 4 miatas, 1 SM and 2 track prep'd non SM's.
they ARE terrible track day cars. why? 0% of the car on track got 200hp over on you. unless you drive very aggressively and bump draft everyone, you have no chance of passing them in the straights and you will scare them into crashing into you if you try to overtake them in turns.

HOWEVER, if you are in a session with 6-10 SM on track, yes then this is probably one of the BEST track car. it's not how fast you go, but how fast you go relative to those around you that makes it fun for me.

track cars are not race cars. SM is a GREAT race car. i haven't seen any race class with grid as big as SM. i was 3 or was it 4 abreast at T3 at LS. what that means is one of those four car will be driving in dirt or over the other cars.. what other racing do you see this excitement.

LiveNupe

While what you say may be fact, it doesn't make as good of a joke at the track. You're violating my modus operandi...... "Never let the truth get in the way of a good story." So pardon me as I continue to ignore the facts that you presented and continue to tell my Miata/Porsche joke.

LiveNupe

Of the 4-5 guys I know who currently own or have owned both cup cars AND street GT3's (who can obviously provide direct cost comparisons based on personal experiences), I've never heard that it costs as much to run a street GT3 as a cup car.

From everything I've heard, the street cars can run many many more hours between engine re-builds, half-shaft replacements, shift cable replacments, etc. etc. etc. and that the costs to run a street GT3 are fairly comparable to a C2.

LVDell

THis is definitely getting good

LiveNupe

Dell, you're not allowed to sit on the sidelines... hop in!!! Do you think the cost of running a street GT3 is closer to a cup car or a C2??

LVDell

I have not run a Cup (yet) but have looked into the operating costs versus my street 3. With that said, I have run my 3 and my CAB extensively on the track and the 3 costs run closer to the CAB than the Cup. A Cup is MUCH more costly to run (properly) than the street. Trust me, I have been on the fence for quite some time. Besides, I really like being able to log that couple a miles a month on the street

karlooz

really, i am just taking a stab. as far as suspension and consumable parts go, costs are equal, cup = gt3 = c2. engine wise, if you go by the 100 hour refresh "rule", cup = gt3 = 20K... i am assuming that cup = gt3 on the refresh because they are basically the same engine. if you do the exact same things to BOTH engines then the $$$ are the same. with c2 just get a crate engine for 10K new or gamble on a parts yard special for 2500 . i am keeping this to just the engine as consumables for racing and DE are totally different. if you race a gt3 and race a cup then maintenance on everything should be very similar. if you DE a gt3 and DE a cup car then maintenance should also be very similar.

as i don't have a gt3 nor a cup car i am not speaking from experience. just extrapolating from what i have read on rennlist and what others have told me.

i think you have to ask yourself what is your ultimate purpose. if you're racing then cup, gt3, c2, spec boxster will ALL be expensive.

haven't you made your mind up yet

LiveNupe

If the engines are the same, then why are the hp and torque numbers different??? I don't think it's just the exhaust. At any rate, I'm still up in the air on what I want to do but I'm learning alot from this thread and enjoy the fact that it's lived as long as it has.

LVDell

At the basic level, gearing and compression are different IIRC. However, the HP numbers are not that different.....something like 15hp different and a couple ft-lb of torque. But the 400+ pounds in weight saving allows that sucker to fly!

karlooz

the engines are "basically" the same.

if you are racing and money IS an object then spec boxster or C2. lower buy in and it's easier to walk away from 30~50K.

if you are racing and money is NO object then gt3 or cup

if you are DEing and are cautious about finding the car's limits then get the gt3. personally, i would get the gt3 just for DE but i am planning to race.

LiveNupe

Just curious, with which organiation?

karlooz

i'll start racing with ARC. it's "fun" racing... real low key. then the plan is to race with PRC and NASA. PCA doesn't come out west so i may have to start my own GTB class or race in GT3S/R with PRC. with more driving and less weight (my goal is 2700 lbs for my 996) the car is capable of top 5 finishes in GT3. i may run in GTS challenge with NASA but it hasn't taken off on the west coast. if not GTS challenge then supertouring/superunlimited. if all else fails then ITE with SCCA