View Poll Results: If your track budget had you limited to the following options, what would you do?
Track a street 996 GT3 10 weekends/year
79
74.53%
Track a 996 C2 with a few suspension upgrades 15 weekends/year
12
11.32%
Track a race prepped 1st gen Boxster 20 weekends/year
11
10.38%
Other (please ellaborate)
4
3.77%
Voters: 106. You may not vote on this poll
996 C2 vs. 996 GT3
12-14-2007, 09:32 PM
#76
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
As far as PCA, you can come down south and catch the PCA Zone 8 "Festival of Speed" at Cal Speedway.
12-14-2007, 09:52 PM
#77
yes, you can.
a crash can cost you 10k+ in a top SM. i know that to be a fact not urban legend. and a sub 20k car aint gonna podium in the SF region that's for sure.
someone asked if SM is a good/bad track car.
well, i had 4 miatas, 1 SM and 2 track prep'd non SM's.
they ARE terrible track day cars. why? 0% of the car on track got 200hp over on you. unless you drive very aggressively and bump draft everyone, you have no chance of passing them in the straights and you will scare them into crashing into you if you try to overtake them in turns.
HOWEVER, if you are in a session with 6-10 SM on track, yes then this is probably one of the BEST track car. it's not how fast you go, but how fast you go relative to those around you that makes it fun for me.
track cars are not race cars. SM is a GREAT race car. i haven't seen any race class with grid as big as SM. i was 3 or was it 4 abreast at T3 at LS. what that means is one of those four car will be driving in dirt or over the other cars.. what other racing do you see this excitement.
a crash can cost you 10k+ in a top SM. i know that to be a fact not urban legend. and a sub 20k car aint gonna podium in the SF region that's for sure.
someone asked if SM is a good/bad track car.
well, i had 4 miatas, 1 SM and 2 track prep'd non SM's.
they ARE terrible track day cars. why? 0% of the car on track got 200hp over on you. unless you drive very aggressively and bump draft everyone, you have no chance of passing them in the straights and you will scare them into crashing into you if you try to overtake them in turns.
HOWEVER, if you are in a session with 6-10 SM on track, yes then this is probably one of the BEST track car. it's not how fast you go, but how fast you go relative to those around you that makes it fun for me.
track cars are not race cars. SM is a GREAT race car. i haven't seen any race class with grid as big as SM. i was 3 or was it 4 abreast at T3 at LS. what that means is one of those four car will be driving in dirt or over the other cars.. what other racing do you see this excitement.
Regarding the SM damage, while the car might be worth $20K, even in a serious wreck, most of the $$ items can be recovered...the stuff that usually gets toasted in a crash is cheap in those cars (don't ask me how I know)...just buy a new donor for a few K...making no wreck likely to cost you more than $10K, even in a top car. The prep work on the tub really isn't a big deal in those cars.
I apologize for being a little OT as far as this thread is concerned, but thought I would throw my 2 cents in on the SM since I suggested offline that the OP consider it if he wanted to race wheel to wheel.
12-14-2007, 09:55 PM
#78
This might be a stupid question, but assuming you don't type 2 overrev, wouldn't there be at least a 2 year warranty on the reman X51s, so 30K over six years at the absolute worst case?
12-15-2007, 12:43 AM
#79
Race Director
I know of several 996 GT3s with over 12,000 track miles. They are driven by very compentant, fast drivers and the only recurring problem is that the coolent line pops off. Other than that ... nothing but consumables.
12-15-2007, 01:48 AM
#80
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
12-15-2007, 07:13 PM
#82
Rennlist Member
*Brake Pads: My stock fronts were toast after 2 days of DE. I replace with Pagid 19s (yellow) for the front and 14s (black) for the rear. These have very good modulation and I am still on the same set of 4 for 16 DEs
*Brake Fluid: I chose Castrol SRF. Though expensive at $75/liter, this stuff will not boil. Considering that temps in Utah reach 100+ degrees, I need the higher boiling point. Count on 2-3 liters for a full DE season.
*Rotors: I toasted my front rotors with the stock pads within 2 DE days. I replaced the front with Porsche Motorsport cross drilled rotors. They look great after 16 DEs.
*Air ducts for the front brakes: There is a good thread on this on Rennlist. I chose the Cup ducts over the RS ducst and have been very pleased. Despite how they look, they really work. This is a small upgrade to help extend brake and rotor life.
*Rear Toe Arms: One of the biggest problems with the stock toe arms is that they l'slip' out of alignment. Another problem is bump steer. I chose the TRG set and have been very happy with their performance. Nothing is worse than getting loose in the rear on a fast straight!
*Tires: I am currently sticking with Michelins. PS2s are great because they 1) squeel like a pig before they break loose, and 2) are perfect track tires for rainy conditions. I have moved on to Sport Cups last year and have been really pleased. They are a more intermediate tire as they give little auditory feedback before breaking loose, but they stick quite well. The only problem with Cups is their longevity. I get 5-6 track days out of cups, and 7-8 out of PS2s. Too bad Cups are so much more fun! I hope to move on to slicks this year, but we shall see...
Apart from that, one can continue down the slippery slope and add lwf, motons, monoballs, RS suspension, cup cf rear wing and cup/rs spoiler, track wheels, and the list goes on. My priority was for a capable track car that could be driven to Sunday dinner. I think the GT3 fills both needs quite well!
Good luck!
-B
12-15-2007, 08:29 PM
#84
Rennlist Member
Yes , I run solely at Miller and spend a lot of time there with the garage and all. Send me an IM when you are here next. I hope to spend even more time on the track next year...
-Blake
-Blake
12-16-2007, 07:20 PM
#86
Three Wheelin'
Everyone misses shifts, I have, the question is how long the engine will last doing something it was not designed to do. I think the M96 engines will last longer than a GT3 in that circumstance.
12-16-2007, 07:24 PM
#87
Three Wheelin'
Anyone seen a blown up X51? 3.4's yes, even a few 3.6's, I've never heard of an X51 though.
Has nothing to do with depreciation. Even take the engine out of the picture... Rotors are 3x the price, brake pads double, tires are more expensive (particulalry on 997's), clutch probably double.
12-16-2007, 07:29 PM
#88
Three Wheelin'
Yes, but you will probably have a hard time collecting if you race the car. One of the problems here is that we are mixing DE and racing together when discussing things. True racing is much more expensive than DE and I think the difference in operating costs will shop up more than if you are DE'ing the car with an occasional fun race.
12-16-2007, 10:56 PM
#89
Rennlist Member
Ed - You make some interesting points, though I have to politely disagree with you on many of them. Aggregating my thoughts into a common theme, I see that you are a huge fan of the X51 package. I spent considerable time learning (on RL) about the M64 & M96 engines, as well as the GT3 engine before making a buying decions (chose the GT3) two years back.
For sake of clarity, could you educate me on the benefits of the X51 package over the the M96 and GT3 engines? That apples to apples comparison would be appreciated.
Thanks, btw, for taking all these arrows! You are on the GT3 board, however, so it comes with the territory!
-Blake
One last thought - On the topic of racing, I do agree that a M96 with X51 might make a more economical choice. But for DE, I whole heartedly disagree and see the GT3 as the obvious choice.
For sake of clarity, could you educate me on the benefits of the X51 package over the the M96 and GT3 engines? That apples to apples comparison would be appreciated.
Thanks, btw, for taking all these arrows! You are on the GT3 board, however, so it comes with the territory!
-Blake
One last thought - On the topic of racing, I do agree that a M96 with X51 might make a more economical choice. But for DE, I whole heartedly disagree and see the GT3 as the obvious choice.
12-17-2007, 12:26 AM
#90
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Ed - You make some interesting points, though I have to politely disagree with you on many of them. Aggregating my thoughts into a common theme, I see that you are a huge fan of the X51 package. I spent considerable time learning (on RL) about the M64 & M96 engines, as well as the GT3 engine before making a buying decions (chose the GT3) two years back.
For sake of clarity, could you educate me on the benefits of the X51 package over the the M96 and GT3 engines? That apples to apples comparison would be appreciated.
Thanks, btw, for taking all these arrows! You are on the GT3 board, however, so it comes with the territory!
-Blake
One last thought - On the topic of racing, I do agree that a M96 with X51 might make a more economical choice. But for DE, I whole heartedly disagree and see the GT3 as the obvious choice.
For sake of clarity, could you educate me on the benefits of the X51 package over the the M96 and GT3 engines? That apples to apples comparison would be appreciated.
Thanks, btw, for taking all these arrows! You are on the GT3 board, however, so it comes with the territory!
-Blake
One last thought - On the topic of racing, I do agree that a M96 with X51 might make a more economical choice. But for DE, I whole heartedly disagree and see the GT3 as the obvious choice.
i drag raced an X51 997 (H2O noo's) in my RS. i have to say until i hit 7000 rpm and 3/4 of the straights, his car has more pull down low. well it is 3.8L (i know this is not the same as 996 X51).
i like GT3 more but X51 is quite a car. i dont know how long each motor will last, but i do know when it's time to pay, rebuilding GT3 motor will be about 2x the cost to replace X51.
to each his own