996 GT3 or 997 GT3
06-18-2007, 02:12 AM
#4
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I drove my 996 GT3 from new for almost 3 years, and on the road only. I always intended to take it to the track but never got around to it, partly because I thought I would get a cheaper Lotus to thrash on the track. Anyway, for various reasons that never happened either.
Now I just took delivery of the long awaited GT3 RS, and have just a couple of days of leisurely street driving experience with it (running it in).
My point is that I do not have track driving comparion between the two; only street driving (although the 997 is very brief so far).
The 996 GT3 was somewhat of a revelation when I first got it (actually, the revelation never wore off). It is true to say that it does have extremely fine tuned and sensitive road manners, and is certainly not the type of car that promotes casual cell phone use, or sipping of a grande latte while driving close to the wall in the car-pool lane. It will tramline and feel like it is bump steering (although I don't think it does in the literal sense). It is very agile and light feeling with the stock suspension, and the ride on rough road surfaces is frankly, close to uncomfortable. Sorry if all this road driving talk and latte's irks some of the more snobbish GT3 rennlisters, but drive them on the road most of us do; even if it is only on the way to the track.
I am quite used to older European sports cars and sports sedans, and in many ways the 996 has more of an old school driving feel than the 997. That's not to say it is bad or inferior; in fact I would say the 996 had more character and that is something which is very rare in modern high performance cars.
A couple of years ago, a Bentley GT arrived that I had ordered, and after one brief drive I didn't want it. I thought it was completely sterile in the way that it drove, and nothing like the sense of occasion that an Arnage is to drive. A Bentley should feel like a Bentley was my summary.
My feeling so far is that the 997 might be almost too civilized (even the RS version). Certainly it is more comfortable and the suspension is far more advanced in feel compared to the 996 version, but then again a Gallardo is technical marvel that feels like driving a high performance Audi with an engine sound track on the stereo.
These are just my initial impressions, and I have no doubt that the 997 engine will be a screaming hooligan once it is run in. In any event, I do think the 996 GT3 might be the more driving focussed car though. More tricky and maybe marginally slower around a track (certainly in the hands of an amature driver like myself), but more involving and requiring greater levels of concentration in the process. The 997 seems to be a more street friendly car, but it does appear to have lost a little of the GT3 racers edge in the process.
In comparison, the old 993's are almost vintage in feel compared even to the 996's (let alone the 997's) but to me they are full of character and driver involvement, and that's what makes them such a satisfying driving experience.
I have to say that I already wish the RS was more of a stripped out lightweight special. The seemingly petty complaints on this forum about regular GT3's and sunroofs, RS's without the plastic rear window, roll cage or fire extinguisher etc. are now seeming to make some sense. If the RS is made in such limited numbers, then why not go the whole hog and make it a club sport?
I remember reading a magazine test comparison between the early European version 996 GT3 and the 2004 second edition, and the summary was that the earlier version was in many ways, a more focussed drivers car (even though the earlier version was 20hp down on the newer one).
When the dust settles and the 997 GT3 excitement is old news, I would not be at all surprised if the 996 GT3 is the one which will eventually be more sought after by driving enthusiasts. Actually, the used 996 GT3 prices seem to have somewhat rebounded in the last six months, and whether that is due to the poor supply of 997 GT3's, I am not certain.
Not sure if this helps at all and I would summarize by saying that I do like both generations of US GT3's, but they are quite different (without even considering the interior fittings and cosmetic stying etc.).
Now I just took delivery of the long awaited GT3 RS, and have just a couple of days of leisurely street driving experience with it (running it in).
My point is that I do not have track driving comparion between the two; only street driving (although the 997 is very brief so far).
The 996 GT3 was somewhat of a revelation when I first got it (actually, the revelation never wore off). It is true to say that it does have extremely fine tuned and sensitive road manners, and is certainly not the type of car that promotes casual cell phone use, or sipping of a grande latte while driving close to the wall in the car-pool lane. It will tramline and feel like it is bump steering (although I don't think it does in the literal sense). It is very agile and light feeling with the stock suspension, and the ride on rough road surfaces is frankly, close to uncomfortable. Sorry if all this road driving talk and latte's irks some of the more snobbish GT3 rennlisters, but drive them on the road most of us do; even if it is only on the way to the track.
I am quite used to older European sports cars and sports sedans, and in many ways the 996 has more of an old school driving feel than the 997. That's not to say it is bad or inferior; in fact I would say the 996 had more character and that is something which is very rare in modern high performance cars.
A couple of years ago, a Bentley GT arrived that I had ordered, and after one brief drive I didn't want it. I thought it was completely sterile in the way that it drove, and nothing like the sense of occasion that an Arnage is to drive. A Bentley should feel like a Bentley was my summary.
My feeling so far is that the 997 might be almost too civilized (even the RS version). Certainly it is more comfortable and the suspension is far more advanced in feel compared to the 996 version, but then again a Gallardo is technical marvel that feels like driving a high performance Audi with an engine sound track on the stereo.
These are just my initial impressions, and I have no doubt that the 997 engine will be a screaming hooligan once it is run in. In any event, I do think the 996 GT3 might be the more driving focussed car though. More tricky and maybe marginally slower around a track (certainly in the hands of an amature driver like myself), but more involving and requiring greater levels of concentration in the process. The 997 seems to be a more street friendly car, but it does appear to have lost a little of the GT3 racers edge in the process.
In comparison, the old 993's are almost vintage in feel compared even to the 996's (let alone the 997's) but to me they are full of character and driver involvement, and that's what makes them such a satisfying driving experience.
I have to say that I already wish the RS was more of a stripped out lightweight special. The seemingly petty complaints on this forum about regular GT3's and sunroofs, RS's without the plastic rear window, roll cage or fire extinguisher etc. are now seeming to make some sense. If the RS is made in such limited numbers, then why not go the whole hog and make it a club sport?
I remember reading a magazine test comparison between the early European version 996 GT3 and the 2004 second edition, and the summary was that the earlier version was in many ways, a more focussed drivers car (even though the earlier version was 20hp down on the newer one).
When the dust settles and the 997 GT3 excitement is old news, I would not be at all surprised if the 996 GT3 is the one which will eventually be more sought after by driving enthusiasts. Actually, the used 996 GT3 prices seem to have somewhat rebounded in the last six months, and whether that is due to the poor supply of 997 GT3's, I am not certain.
Not sure if this helps at all and I would summarize by saying that I do like both generations of US GT3's, but they are quite different (without even considering the interior fittings and cosmetic stying etc.).
06-18-2007, 01:45 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
+1! I completely agree with those sentiments. What I find frustrating is that the 04-05 996GT3 was truly a thowback car. The term "driver" involvement is key here. I finally possessed the ability to buy a 996GT3 last summer, and decided to take the plunge and place an order on a 997 GT3 (two deposits, in fact). If the 997 continued down the GT3 route (more track car than street car) then I was going to flip the 996 and upgrade... But herein lies the problem.... The 997GT3 really takes a step back in driver involvement. Sure, it is faster. Sure, it is more foregiving. But at the end of the day, I want to earn my stripes in my track car. The 996 GT3 provides that, and for now, I have no reason to buy the latest and greatest. What makes me nuts is that "new" 997 GT3 owenrs continue to think that the latest is always the best. Furthermore, they have this opinion that 996GT3 owners are just expressing sour grapes because 1) we couldn't afforf the 997, 2) we couldn't get an allocation, or 3) we are just closed minded losers afraid of change. Huh? Look, if I were to buy a car for looks (interior/exterior/overall sex appeal), the 997 GT3 wins HANDS DOWN. It is truly one hot car. BUT, I am not buying it to drive to Friday dinner with my wife. Rather, I am buying it for the track first and foremost. Okay, now people will say - if you want a track car, why not buy a Cup? Good point - but I do not know anyone in my state that I trust servicing a Cup. Furthermore, I like taking my "track" car under warranty to any local PCar dealer. Yes, they could refuse service, but I'd argue that a little relationship building will solve that....
So what is wrong with the 997 GT3? Well, IMHO it went soft - sunroof, TC, compliant suspension, etc. And the RS? Darn it - it got fat! Where is all of the weight loss that the ROW gets? But OMG - it so damn good looking! If it were for art's sake, I would buy it right now... No, I'll keep my current 996 GT3 and start the mod process to continue to make it faster. It just feels right when I drive it... how can I argue with that?
My lenghty $0.02,
-B
So what is wrong with the 997 GT3? Well, IMHO it went soft - sunroof, TC, compliant suspension, etc. And the RS? Darn it - it got fat! Where is all of the weight loss that the ROW gets? But OMG - it so damn good looking! If it were for art's sake, I would buy it right now... No, I'll keep my current 996 GT3 and start the mod process to continue to make it faster. It just feels right when I drive it... how can I argue with that?
My lenghty $0.02,
-B
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06-18-2007, 02:36 PM
#8
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I am with you on all counts.
I just don't care for TC and sunroof. ANd sound package? What? To me, the 996 GT cars felt more like a 911 from the 993 and prior days than the modern dressed up Boxster.
And the RS is gorgeous, but I am sorry, where did all the weight savings go?
I just don't care for TC and sunroof. ANd sound package? What? To me, the 996 GT cars felt more like a 911 from the 993 and prior days than the modern dressed up Boxster.
And the RS is gorgeous, but I am sorry, where did all the weight savings go?
06-18-2007, 02:40 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by 94Speedster
What makes me nuts is that "new" 997 GT3 owenrs continue to think that the latest is always the best. Furthermore, they have this opinion that 996GT3 owners are just expressing sour grapes because 1) we couldn't afforf the 997, 2) we couldn't get an allocation, or 3) we are just closed minded losers afraid of change.
Good reviews guys.
06-18-2007, 04:55 PM
#15
6 v 7
Good to hear the hype starting to fade. My 996 GT3 was a revelation in terms of shear driving pleasure-especially with lwfw, shortened gears and some suspension tweeks. I have not driven the 7 version so can't really compare but it would be hard for me to believe that the new car has it so outclassed. I'm sure stock for stock the new one is a bit faster but not that much as reported track times between the cars have shown. It really does take a while for the real story to come out. Some have even said that the chassis on the 7 is 40% stiffer? I thought it was 7-10%. Anyone know for sure? At any rate it's good to know that there is a much more balanced story out there. Should have kept my 3, it's a hell of a car. That being said, all GT3's are great and I'd love to have an RS.