Palting

OK. This whole sunroof thing is quite amusing, and all this hoopla is entertaining. It proves beyond a doubt that we Porsche owners are a passionate lot. Here's a few points I like to bring up, and maybe we can have some fun with the topic.

Race cars have no sunroof. It would be silly to have one. Torsional rigidity, no need for it, driver can get thrown out, yada, yada.

Most owners of street Porsches like the sunroof, or at least did not delete the sunroof when given the choice. It's more sporty, open air driving, yada, yada.

The GT3 Cup car is a race car. No sunroof. It doesn't have to pretend it is a street car. Not a poseur.

The GT3 and GT3 RS are street cars. They have sun roofs. They are not pretending to be race cars. Not poseurs, either. Unless, of course, you want to "look" like a race car, delete the sun roof, and pose as one. HAAH!!! ( I think I will get flamed for the HAAH! part, heh-heh-heh ).

Now, someone prove to me and everone else that a sunroof actually makes a difference in performance, and that this whole hoopla is not just about posing to look more like a Cup car. I want numbers and facts now, mind you, not just waffling about torsional rigidity theory and race cars don't have one yad yada.

MJones

The actual weight if the sunroof mechanism weighs somthing on the order of (x?) and is mounted at the highest possible area in the car.
Will it have an affect on handling - YES
Will any of us be able to notice it's affect...probably not. A Pro driver yes.

Weight in this location completly negates the "clocking" of the calipers (Lower cg) on the GT3 vs the other models including the Turbo.

Less weight also means less of a porker.

cosmos

I dont want one because it gives up headroom. It also is the worst place for weight. Sunroofs can leak. Sunroofs make noise.

The bottom line is. I WANT TO DECIDE IF I WANT ONE!!

enthusiast

As we have said before the sunroof is the "poster child" for all the other bad features on the GT3 line up. Luxury items and non performance items forced upon us.

Then we have the whole "watered down" issue between the North America cars and the RoW ones.

Show me the unbiased test data supporting those that think the PCCB are worth the $$$ over the iron brake set up!

icon

i'd like to see the gt3 drop 300 pounds minimum!
whacking the sunroof would be a step in the right direction.
up the weight > reduce the fun and increase the maintenence!
jeff

enthusiast

icon;

Agree with you on the car's mass, the 996 and 997 GT3 need diets.

GrantG

Exactly!!!

Holger B

Palting where do you draw the line? When the GT3 comes standard with NAV...or heated seats...or as a targa or convertible? You'll likely think that I'm being absurd, but you see my point. (I would have thought you were nuts if you told me the next version of the GT3 would only come with a sunroof when I bought my 996 GT3.)

My impression of the GT's (be it a CGT, GT2, GT3, etc) was that they were something different from the other models. Same looks & genes, but taken to the next level for those who want that type of thing. Now, it's just a line extension like the targa, cab or C4. Something to slot between the S and the Turbo. More aggressive than the S, but with all the same creature comforts to appeal to the masses.

IMO they're destroying the GT mystique, since it's as much an image car as a performance vehicle. Not everyone wants or needs to own one, but judging by the reactions I get to mine from Porsche & non-Porsche owners alike, enthusiasts really appreciate that it's being built and that it's so focused on performance. Clearly, PCNA just doesn't get this concept.

arenared

I do believe a steel panel is pretty reliable.

In addition to the headroom comments, the main reason is that it makes a hypocrisy out of other changes such as lug bolts that are 2mm shorter to save weight, use of aluminum, CF, etc. These changes shave a gram here or there or a pound here or there at the most.

Then Porsche goes and throws, what, 20lbs?, 40lbs? up on the roof. Heck, they may as well put a luggage rack up there and a tow hitch on the back. That would give it even broader apppeal and you could take it camping.

rmag

At least with a tow hitch you could pull a trailer with an extra set of track tires on it

MetalSolid

You're right! The GT3 was originally a homologation special - a track car, not a street car - the GT3/RS have now become purely street cars. Porsche should also remove that stupid huge wing, too, to totally erase that poseur image you mention... Or return the GT3 & RS back to their original mission.

Rotgtdrei

It's a critical performance inhibitor if you're 6'3" or more and want to do DE at a minimum, you'll have a problem wearing a helmet. If you want to get to more serious track usage, expect problems with fitment of a cage.

Porschefile

I'd say there is a minimal performance difference at best between the sunroof and sunroof delete. IMO, all of the dismay over things like this is that it isn't keeping inline with the uncompromising purpose built sports car heritage of the 911.

Though it may be a ghastly thought to some, there are those of us that would purchase a gutted out, caged, ac/radio/sunroof/interior delete homologation special for the street simply because it's "cool" or because of the added performance. Honestly, how much profit has been made from the Boxster and Cayenne? Both cars have certainly helped keep the company afloat and independant. Personally, I would have liked to see them put some of this profit back into the lineup by taking the necessary measures to legalize non-sunroof GT cars, and possibly even making available to the US a CS gutted, caged more sport oriented version of these cars. God knows they've certainly made enough profit from the blasphemy that is the Cayenne! :rant off: Options are nice, and Porsche certainly provides a variety to it's customers. IMHO though, I think the GT cars should come nearly gutted as standard and everything else should be an option.

Regardless of how compromising the new cars may be, I don't think anyone can really deny that they are still nothing short of spectacular. They still deliver the performance like none other. True, they may be a little softer but, Porsche always manages to keep advancing the breed with new and ground breaking technologies and with performance to match.

Ed Newman

Look, lets be honest about this. The difference of sunroof or no sunroof performane wise is probably 1/10th of a second per lap on a given track. BUT, add a sunroof, heated seats, spare tire, naviagtion system, bigger stereo, rear DVD plays, don't forget the rear seats and a bunch of other crap and now the car is 300 lbs heavier and damn skippy straight it makes a BIG difference!

P.S. I believe they will always make some cars w/o sunroof due to homologations. If they needed to build the first RS to homoligate the glove box, I can't image the FIA allowing a change like deleting a sunroof.

Racer48

Palting........

Thank you! You make some excellent points. The bottom line is that the GT3 is a street car....not a race car. Those buyers that need/want a race car (and I have owned 4 of them) need to look elsewhere. For those that want an exciting car for use on public roads, the GT3 is a great choice. Although I would personally prefer the GT3 without the sunroof, the presence of a sunroof would in no way make me less likely to buy the car.

It doesn't matter how much you plan to "track" your car. Track/DE days are NOT racing.....they are not even close to racing! On a track day you are competing against yourself, and the additional weight of a sunroof is immaterial. If you choose to go racing you need something other than a GT3. There are lots of great sports racers and formula cars out there that are much cheaper than a Porsche and also MUCH faster.