Flying Finn

I agree. To me, the whole pattern of softening everything. GT3 was the last Porsche that was at least close to being hard (GT3 really isn't that hard either) and now they're are dilluting even that.

I really hope a lot of people reject 997 GT3 because it's not hard enough and sales aren't what Porsche expects.
I know that won't happen since there are so many people who want soft GT3s and even if it did happen, Porsche's answer probably would be to soften it even more...

Don't they remember when they decided to buil 500 911 RSs?

All the marketing people were totally against it, saying it's not a wise move, no one wants that hard Porsche, it won't sell so many numbers, 500 is way too much etc. etc.

What happened? They immediately were sold out and Porsche ended up building 3 times the number needed (and what marketing people said was too much) and today, that's probably the most iconic Porsche ever and really "polished" Porsche image as a true sports car company.

MJSpeed

First off the 996 GT3 is NOT a hard/harsh ride at all. With no offence, it may be in comparison to what I believe is the numbest of all Porsche's, the 996 C4S.

The issue here is the fact that PAG/PCNA aren't even giving us, the buying public the ability to buy what we want. The "we know what you want more than you know yourself" attitude is excrutiatingly apparent.

Porsche fails in that they produce too many vehicles of the same model (CGT & 996GT3) for any particular market, sales slow significantly, dealers complain about sitting inventory, they sell them at a discount and Porsche believes it's because they missed the mark by not making the vehicle more appealing to the masses. Had they only imported 500 or so 996 GT3's then I believe the 997 GT3 would not be diluted as much. This would also mean less of them available in the used car market for higher prices which would make many think and believe that if you want one next time, you'll have to buy it new. Which would in turn mean more new car sales.

Now they will build them to appeal to more of the masses and in turn dilute the "image" of the GT3. They'll bring a watered down version of the RS to NA. This is a vehicle intended for the more hardcore driver as stated in their literature. However they will water it down to the point that those hardcore buyers won't want it and of course PAG/PCNA will say that the reason they didn't sell was because the NA market isn't ready for that type of vehicle. Hence an even more watered down version next time, that's if there even is a next time.

Sometimes it's better for car manufacturers to produce less of one particular "cult" model in order to maintain a certain image. No company is better at doing that than Ferrari. What's their production philosophy; "we will build one less than we think we can sell."

Palting

I like to drive the Porsche daily. I like to drive the Porsche on the track frequently. I want a Porsche that will deliver excellent performance at both venues, and one that I can drive to the track. That, by definition, is the GT3. The 997 GT3 delivers improved street performance, and improved track performance. That is not "diluting the GT3 image". That, I believe, is achieving the ultimate GT3 image.

The "hard" street legal race car image is the GT3 RS. I would agree with all the comments if they are limited to the RS.

Anyway, y'all. This has been fun. I learned a couple of things, and I hope I was able to impart some contrasting opinion to what I perceived was the unfair bashing of the 997 GT3. All Porsche's are great cars, targeted at different things. I would love to own any one of the models, and, if I had the money, own one of every model. Even the Cayenne and the Panamera .

996FLT6

Hey Palting if/when you get the 997 gt3 will you be able to test drive before buy?. From what I read the normal suspension mode of PASM will be similar in ride to our vanilla 996 GT3 san sunroof( just joking). I can tell you where I live ie San francisco-it kinda sucks : ) so let us know how compliant it is for the streets. I agree that PAG should let us choose what options should be in the car for everyone and if Lotus can federalize it for the US(I don't think Lotus is that profitable compared to Porsche) Porsche can step up to the bat too and make everyone happy. Actually for me I woulda gotten a 997 GT3 if it had rear seats versus sunroof : ). Regards. Mike

OldGuy

The important thing for you to remember is you can buy what you want. You are all Porsche devotees.
so anything PCNA is going to put out you can buy and best of luck to you all= but drive them all so we make an informed desicion. All I really care about is an experience 996 GT3 guy buying a 997 so we can have a real comparison on the cupholders nav system and the cushiy ride opition.
THat would be cool=its all up to you all.
after hearing all this debate the Manthey kitted GT3with RS flywheel and cluch may be just as good or betterthan a 997. so who knows. but get those 997s bought so we can do some comparisons!!!!!!

ryce

It's not a gt if it has a hole in the roof.

38D

Come try driving one into NYC and then let me know how you like it. You can't compare South Florida to the frost heaves and potholes in the northeast. I had a M030 Boxster and it was not that fun to drive into NYC, and it was far less stiff than a GT3.

Flying Finn

Porsches (except Cayenne), and especially GT variants are not meant for potholes, they're meant for fast paved roads and tracks.

If you drive your GT3 on a motocross track and thing it's too stiff & uncomfortable, it's not because of chassis, it's because of the "road" where you drive.

Let's keep our eyes on the ball, ok.

pcar964

I don't know why you're even worried about GT3s. Obviously you're one of the "I like all Porsches, they're all great" sheep, no disrespect intended but it's true. The fact that you can't see the "big deal" of the GT3 being softened and watered-down, is proof enough that you aren't the same kind of customer as most others in this forum.

Again, no disrespect intended - but anyone who groups together the standard mass-produced Pcars and the GT3 in the same breath, doesn't show a very deep level of understanding.

Everyone is entitled to buy and enjoy whichever Pcar they want, of course - but some of us are a little perturbed with the guys who are pushing for "more civilized" GT3s - it's the ONE product Porsche still makes for the true enthusiast, and we would appreciate if it would be left alone.

38D

I 100% agree that a GT3 is meant for the track. I can't imagine why anyone would buy one to tool around on the street, as you cannot even begin to explore the limits there. My point was that many posters here often say that a GT3 is perfectly fine as a daily driver, and is not too harsh. Well, it really depends on where you live, as road quality varies greatly from FL to NY.

Larry Herman

That's why I sold mine. Yes I miss the thrust of the motor and the exclusivity of the car, but for 99% of the time, the Boxster is way more fun on the street. And except for where the straights are really long, the RSA gets it done on the track.

db_gt3

What a tool. We have all had enough of your regurgitation of PCNA's 997 GT3 marketing schpeel. You sound like a brochure. I'm sure your dealer is in love with you, and vice versa. I have been watching you drone on and on for many months now about the "superiority" of the 997 GT3. I am amazed anyone here even replies to your posts anymore.

I doubt you have ever driven a 996 GT3. Every 996 C4S I have ever seen at the track has been, to say the least, ponderous. So before you spout any more of your "my new car is going to be so much faster than yours" froth, you should at least get to know the beast you are so quick to call slow. We will all have to wait and see what the performance vector between the two cars is. Given the fact that the motor and transmission are THE SAME, I would venture to say that it will be negligable. In fact, the 997 GT3 seems to me like a facelifted placemarker with a big hole on top waiting for the 998 to take shape.

Not once have I heard you offer up any sound advice on track setup, track driving, or anything else. Do us all a favor and keep it to yourself until you: 1. Take delivery of your new car(if you really are getting one at all), and 2. Start whooping some 996 GT3's at the track. We will all be waiting for that to happen. Its all about respect brother, keep it in your pants until you have run a few thousand miles with the big boys. Until then, you are just another slow guy in a heavy, numb steering street cruiser looking for validation in all the wrong places.

Current Setup:
MPSC
Schatz Alignment
Cup Brake Ducts
Brembo Floating Rotors (front)
RS Flywheel/Clutch
Tequipment Roll Bar
GT3 Cloth Seats
Sabelt Harnesses
Center Console Delete

Flying Finn

I dunno man, there are some pretty crappy roads down here too!

I've one of those who say GT3 is perfectly fine and I mean that. My 993 is way more harsh, uncomfortable etc. and I'm fine with it (have herniated disc on my back too). Maybe I'm just too used to hard ride since I honestly don't see the hardness or noisyness in GT3 at all.

In any case, and regardless of one's "pain threshold", my point is, if you want a real sports car, you have to be willing to take some "punishment" for it.

racer

What is the dollar threshold for a Sunroof Delete option?

Assuming Porsche must supply 5-6 cars for testing to the feds without a sunroof. Thats 500-600,000 of product that Porsche must pay for up front. Porsche is a very fiscally conservative company.

Now, what is the expected GT3 production run for the US? 1500 cars (just a guess)

Now. Rennlist is a skewed audience of "fanatics", but Porsche sells to fanatics and non fanatics alike. Figure though, of say 1500 cars, how many would be ordered without a sunroof.. 10% (150 cars? 200 cars?) So...

200 cars have to pay for a half million dollars of "development" costs.

That would mean approx $3000 per car to have no sunroof.

Sounds to me like sunroof delete cars would have to be a special order, which in and of itself, may be more difficult to provide. I can't imagine a dealer willing to alot 1/2 of his GT3's (a $100K+ price) as non sunroof on the hopes that a "fanatic" will buy it.

The headroom arguement, to me, is the only real issue. I seriously doubt most GT3 owners, and not all of them will track the car, would notice the weight penalty. They certainly wouldn't notice any loss of rigidity.. And NO ONE says you even have to open the damn thing!

How about a GT3 Targa? Maybe a GT3 Cab? ok, maybe not a cab, but a Targa might be fun too. Get your "ultimate" performance and a nice view out the top!

I drive a pretty much "track only" SC. I don't have a trailer etc. Sometimes its nice to cruise back home from the track with the windows down and the sunroof open. Can't wait to pick up a "cheap" GT3 since it seems, none of the "purists" want one anymore

mmm stirring the pot

Flying Finn

I agree. It's the people like this who are the reason for Porsche softening the GT3. Those who want the PASM & other nannies, sunroofs, cupholders etc who complained about 996 GT3 and Porsche obviously is listening in hopes for selling, selling, selling.

Sure they sell but I wonder what's next, GT3 Cab would seem locigal...