PogueMoHone

It is often interesting to read posts here because of the great information, and sometimes very frustrating because of the the mis-information that is compounded through mis-perceptions, mis-understandings and mis-readings, the Rennlist "wart" if you will.

But that is not the wart(s) I want to talk about, The ones I want to talk about are the one on the dash of the new GT3 and PASM. These options have been mis-aligned and mis-understood on many forums so let me tell what they do:

In techical terms (best left to someone else to explain), "Sport Chrono plus" changes the "torque" map of the car.

More importantly in practical terms, it allows to better move the rear of the car, when required becasue of the increased torque. You guys who really "finesse" drive your cars will intuitively understand this, and for others the light will go on, and for some of we will continue to practice the implementation of this driving technique, i.e. steering with the accelerator and the rear of the car.

The wart has nothing to do with 0-60 times, or faster acceleration, as is often posted or complained about.

In tandem with the wart is the PASM, also new to the GT3 and I'm sure that there will volumes and volumes on it's merits and de-merits. But again, this adjustability, especially for softer settings, can be a real advantage on "bumpy" surfaces because it allows better wheel travel and tracking.

Those of you stuck on steel springs might need to recognize that there is a paradigm shift going on with regard to suspensions (Porsche is pretty capable here), and you might want to pause, explore and understand the capabilities, before you label it another wart. We all remember the doom and gloom over the air cooled change.

Now where did I get these insights, and why am I confident about them? Well, I took the Porsche ice driving school (Camp4) where the need to "rear wheel" steer and have wheel tracking on rough rutted and slippery surfaces was an absolute neccessity. (Highly recommended!)

So, I think I will take my GT3 with "warts" and all!

enthusiast

Thanks. Humans do so seem to resist change.

I like the latest driving aids if they help both on and off the track. I assume most drivers with the required performance driving skills will welcome some help, but if an aid slows them down on the track...

MJones

I'm sure the new GT3 will be tweaked a bit differently, but here is what the wart function basicly does on a 997

From the 997 Product Reference Guide:

Sport button function/
Sport mode
The driver can select a sportier setup by
pressing the Sport button in the center
console. A certain amount of comfort is
sacrificed in this mode for the sake of
sportiness. The word “Sport” appears in
the instrument cluster display as soon
as the Sport button is activated.
A modified program is utilized for the
following systems in the “Sport”setting:
• Accelerator pedal characteristics
• High-speed cut-off
• Dash pot (load change damping)
• PSM (Porsche Stability Management)
• PASM (Porsche Active Suspension
Management)

A number of adjustments are made in
Motronic when the Sport function is
activated. The electronic throttle charac-
teristicis switched to a steeper setting
(only in manual mode with Tiptronic S).
This produces a faster throttle response
to accelerator pedal movements to
subjectively increase the spontaneity of
the engine.
When the Sport Chrono button is
pressed, the abrupt cut-off (cf. section
2.3.14) is active in 1st to 5th gears
for the manual gearbox (without Sport
Chrono function only in 1st and 2nd
gears) and in the manual setting for
Tiptronic transmission.
The so-called dash pot is executed less
smoothly and with less emphasis on
comfort. This means that the throttle
closes fasterwhen released. The result
is a heightened, “racing-like” engine
dynamic.
Sport mode allows the extreme driver
to deliberately direct PSM interventions
away from driving stability and more
towards agility and driving dynamics,
without having to sacrifice PSM support
in emergency situations.

In addition PASM is automatically
switched to its sport setting. This results
in harder damping and therefore more
spontaneity when steering into corners.
Body movements are noticeably
reduced, improving road contact. Agility
and driving pleasure, particularly on
circuits, are also increased and overall
driving stability in extreme driving situa-
tions improved.

e6tme

'Those of you stuck on steel springs...'? You must be talking about Cayenne owners with regard to PASM, because all 911s with or without PASM utilize steel springs.

It will be interesting to see how Porsche implements PASM in the GT3. Will it simply entail a toggle between two (or more) preset damper settings? Or will the 'active' facility, where the dampers adjust depending on road conditions, be implemented as well?

Certainly PASM makes sense while on the street, especially to make a sporty car more sensible for everyday use. But will its variability according to road conditions result in an inconsistant feeling on the track, especially a 'rough' track?

Keep in mind, the general weakness of these systems that adjust damping rate with no corresponding change in spring rate is that the springs need to be matched to the softest damper setting, especially in a sports car. This obviously results in an undersprung chassis when the dampers are set to their firmest.

I for one generally embrace technology and expect Porsche to compromise very little when it comes to setting up the GT3 chassis. And as is the case with all street cars, the serious track junky will find the oem suspension to be inadequate on the track. I guess all we can do is wait and see!

MJSpeed

Although the posts are extremely interesting it is still a wait and see type of thing. We can all speculate about this now, however Porsche's recent history will tell us that what is done in their regular models can't always be extrapolated to mean the same in their "special" models such as the GT3's.

I thought I read on www.997gt3.com that the system on the GT3 would allow you the driver to be a lot more aggressive (less intrusive) on the GT3. SuperDarius got this from Mr. Rohl himself.

Nissan had something vaguely similar to what MJones described (suspension part only) on their 300ZX TT's back in the early '90's and the difference was minimal, if that, with regards to better handling although the feel was stellar.

Porsche no doubt will have tested this enough to be able to stand by their product and hopefully it will mean a better overall driving experience and of course faster lap times!!

Nordschleife

any neutral observer will be less than impressed by 'Air suspension'. But if you are comparing it to Detroit's finest, it may not be too bad.
Honestly, it feels years away from being as good as springs

enthusiast

Colm,

They are still going nuts on other threads about technology they don't even understand or know that they will get on 997 GT3.

I'm about ready to take the synchronizers out of their gear boxes and they can slowly match revs and double clutch every freaking shift, remove the power brakes, remove the hydraulic assist clutch system, remove the brake bias, and so on. I guess driving well has to be strenuous and manly!

DanH

Are you sure? I thought it just adjusted the throttle map. i.e. identical pedal movement translates into a wider opening of the throttle which will make it feel snappier. There is no extra power etc.

Be interested to see how they compromise with the PASM too. If they could make it never bottom out on the street etc without compromising track ride, I'd actually be tempted to try and find the money to upgrade. I'm not sure it is possible though, as a good street setup would bump the ride height 20mm and soften the springs and change the geo whilst it was at it (er and not just as an unintended side effect of the ride height)! Otherwise, do they go for a track ride height or a road ride height? If the latter, then how much are they diluting the GT3 idiom?

I think they realise they scared off a lot of the first owners with the 996 GT3 because the car was too focussed and hard. I just hope the new one isn't pandering to that bunch too much.

healeyg

PASM does not change the ride height of the car.
The springs are virtually the same as the 996 gt3
Its the SHOXXX that are different - computer controlled dampening and rebound

you may even have experienced this in your SUV already! (my suburban has computer controlled shock valving - its called "Autoride")

The M5 has it (E60) and had it (E34) years ago (EDC was part of the nurburgring suspension - dial/button on the dash to change the shock valving)

Completely has been viewed as a positive from a track standpoint

GT3 Nut

PASM DOES change the ride height of the car - by 10mm.

e6tme

No. Cars equipped with PASM have a lower ride height than non PASM cars, and that is a result of different springs compared to non-PASM cars. PASM can/does not actively change the ride height of the car in which it is installed.

GT3 Nut

I must be smoking something then, I swear when I pressed sport mode on the PASM in my 997S (gone) and now on my Cayman that it lowers down. Are you POSITIVE?

e6tme

I have to disagree. The EDC in the E60 M5 suffers from the same malady as it does in the 997 PASM. Springs are matched to the softest damper setting which results in the stiffer damper settings creating an overdamped/undersprung condition. Sport-Auto tested the M5 and found it to be slower around Hockenheim on the stiffest EDC setting.

Hopefully Porsche is able to rectify this conundrum with the new GT3. At the end of the day, the serious tracker wouldn't likely keep the standard GT3 suspension anyway, whether it is PASM or not.

Positive. I'll take some of that stuff you're smokin though!

PogueMoHone

I'm sure, look at the graphs for the 997S!

03-turbo911

e6tme's right. The PASM equipped cars come with springs that are lower by 10mm.