My check engine has come on and I have taken my 2004 C4S to a repair shop. After their review they feel that one of lifters in the cylinder may be stuck or needs to be replaced. They also feel that since the work is being done, they should change all the lifters in the bank. In short, they said they need to take the engine out to do this work and the estimate is ca. $5,500. A few questions: Has anyone had this issue? Should I ask them to look at other options? Can I drive the car to get a second opinion? Any other advice or insight would be appreciated.

 

do you know what code the CEL relates to?

How did they come up with bad lifters? knocking noise?

a few here have spent 5 k+ on new lifters only to still have an issue.

is this shop experienced with the 996 motors?

where is the car driven?

 

Quite a ways to go from a CEL to needing to drop the engine because the shop feels one of the lifters *may* be stuck or needs to be replaced.

I'm always reluctant to question the diagnosis of a pro tech but given the cost of the work one wants to be very sure it is needed.

What are the error codes? What are the symptoms?

If the engine is making noise, not running right. my recommendation is to avoid running the engine any -- if it needs to be run it should only be run under the oversight of a tech during diagnosis -- until the problem has been identified and fixed.

Neither of my Porsche engines has required this level of work. I have come upon one rather new -- in fact it was new when the problem developed -- that had some lifters replaced. This due to noise. (The owner refused to accept the car back after the work.)

I have heard of reports of lifters having to be replaced mainly in cars with VarioCam Plus -- variable intake timing and low/high intake valve lift. In some cases the low/high lift "feature" fails in one or more intake lifters -- due to "dirt" -- and after a road test which confirms this via some observation of the O2 sensor readings and monitoring when low or high lift is enabled by the DME the lifters are replaced.

Porsche guidelines call for all intake lifters to be replaced not just the one. That is if one cylinder is affected, even because of just one intake lifter -- there are two per cylinder, all intake lifters of that bank are replaced.

My 2nd hand info is this is a "new" car problem. The cause is "dirt" -- of which a new engine can have in the form of metal debris that the engine sheds as it runs, and sheds from every internal surface including those of the oil passages/galleys that feed oil to the lifters. My 2nd hand info is this is a rare condition with a mature engine.

Also, again my 2nd hand info is if the lifters need to be replaced this can be done with the engine in the car. The exhaust sytem has to come out along with the rear wheels need to be removed. (My Boxster was in for what proved to be a bad VarioCam solenoid and actuator and this repair requires the cams to be removed and this exposes the lifter buckets which can be removed if necessary and this was done with the engine in the car.)

Unless my info is wrong -- and that is possible -- removing the engine is unneccesary but a shop may prefer this as it does make access to the camshaft covers, and all the hardware under the covers much easier.

Still the tech when he did my Boxster didn't complain about the access and the job -- done I forget now but 30K or maybe closer to 50K miles ago -- appears to have been done right. No leaks. No further error codes. Engine runs just great.

 

P.O.- Until you find a competent Indie you are doomed.Ask here for referrals .There is no CEL code specifically for stuck Lifters !
I have done the lifter job as part of full engine rebuild. There is a lot in Search on this subject.Get the latest part 3 Interchange to save on the parts - no need for the Porsche printing on the packaging.
If a lifter has failed, you may find the tappet hammered into the bucket.It requires tremendous force to remove the jammed tappet. Certainly nothing some snake oil like Seafoam/Rislone would achieve.
My jammed lifters were perfectly clean.Examined under a lens and dismantled- everything looked perfect- even the tiny oilways. So the cause is a mystery. It does not seem associated with over-rev but perhaps a combo of excessive heat/revs/old oil ? Nobody I have read & has dismantled jammed lifters has ever found dirt.But the oilways are very small so perhaps...? The lifters that have 'collapsed' (not my case) are the ones where the tappet has worn or the seal/ball/spring has failed. That could be dirt related?
Whatever you do ,do not give this job to someone who has never done an M96. This engine is way more demanding than your average small block V8 !

 

Any other symptoms other than CEL? What was the code?

 

Why so much money?? It amazes me the amount of money garages or shops charge for work just because it's a porsche, I've just sourced some genuine INA lifters as I'm doing mine over the winter here in the uk and they cost me £350 and no you don't have to take out the engine, not even go anywhere near stripping it down, it's only the valve covers then unbolt the cams at one end and the vario assembly and it all comes out as one then the lifters are there, remove and replace, re for cams and vario , cover back on check timing done ! I reckon you could do it as a DIY taking your time over a couple of days but a pro shop should easy do it in a day??? How much is the hourly rate for labour ?? How much they charging for lifters??

 

Noz,
Just checking if you can verify that this can be done without engine removal?
It makes sense to me, having done this a few dozen times, but on front engine cars.

I was also told by a top-notch Indie in town, that the engine must be removed to do the lifters due to lack of access.

Would love to do this myself without dropping engine.
Once you drop the engine, you might as well change out all those other thangs -- SAI, IMSB, clutch, tranny fluid, on and on into the "while you are there" money pit.

 

If access is an issue, you can always just disconnect the engine mounts and lower the engine a few inches to get more access. I never done this with the engine in the car but if I had to, I would try it for sure.

 

I did this so that I could access plugs and coils the other day, clearly not on the same scale, but you can definitely drop engine a bit for access, made it super easy to get to them (seems to be impossible without due to exhaust).

I think there is a fairly recent thread about someone doing this with the engine in the car, he was having timing issues I think.

 

I can drop my engine in the driveway on jack stands in 3-4 hours, the same back in. Even if you can do this with the engine in the car it will take you that much longer.

 

Next time you do that you should film it. Would love to see how it's done.

 

Approach with care! This one isn't adding up to me.

 

Dharn55
I know what you mean I think this all the time about people trying to do stuff with the engine in or paying loads for easy jobs like coil packs and AOS etc
I'm taking my engine out over the winter to do the flywheel and a few other bits and I'm going to YouTube it and post to show its not that hard, it's half a day and like you say you can add that to my job by leaving the motor in the car and lots more frustration.
Once it's out it is so easy to do stuff!!