She died doing what she loved. RIP 996 @ 166k miles
03-13-2016, 01:27 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thank you for enjoying and driving the **** out of your car, as Porsche intended.
Good luck with the next leg of the adventure!
Good luck with the next leg of the adventure!
03-13-2016, 01:39 PM
#18
Former Vendor
You are asking the wrong person to get the answer that you want to hear. All I deal with, and see, are failed engines.
We don't do service work, and we don't have customers that come to us because they "want to".
We don't do service work, and we don't have customers that come to us because they "want to".
03-13-2016, 01:40 PM
#19
Rennlist Member
I would have to say congratulations, weird but true. Your title said it best.
Smiles per hour!
Good luck on the "new" build. \\Cheers...
Smiles per hour!
Good luck on the "new" build. \\Cheers...
03-13-2016, 01:54 PM
#21
Race Director
99%? 50%? 5%?
Greatly affects what is implied by "you got a good one."
03-13-2016, 02:40 PM
#22
Instructor
Thanks OP for sharing that lap (love me some Buttonwillow! 
), and commiseration on the mishap. I really hope you get a replacement engine or rebuild the current one. Love the color, that it is a sunroof delete C4S, and your track companion for all these years!
), and commiseration on the mishap. I really hope you get a replacement engine or rebuild the current one. Love the color, that it is a sunroof delete C4S, and your track companion for all these years!
03-13-2016, 04:14 PM
#23
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, all I know is that i was always VERY aggressive with maintainence on this car because I knew it was an expensive car. Aggressive with frequency of oil changes (before and after track), agressive with untold brake fluid purges. Aggressive with complete coolant flushes.
Even changed out the water pump when it wasn't broken, AOS, all the hoses, fluids, etc, etc, etc. Definitely didn't spare any expense when it came to service and maintainence.
I wasn't particularly kind when driving either. Most if not all my shifts happened above 4k rpms. I barely drove around the highway at 6th gear unless it was a roadtrip. My belief is that (maybe false trust) is that they made the car to be run. It's a thoroughbred and if you baby it, it's going to get atrophy and when you do finally decide to give it a go, it's gonna break. If you've driven around Germany at length of time, they're not kind to their cars. They're aggressive, so the car addresses it's home market first with driving style, ergonomics, how it handles, speed, etc. At least that's how i'd like to think of it.
It was my daily driver, home depot car, long cross country road trip car several times. Funny enough that when I got a second car that was to become my daily driver due to daily commute, it decides to start complaining. Go figure.
Maybe she just died of old age. Heart gave out, but her brain is still strong. So hopefully, I don't have to spend so much money to resurrect her. As the rest of it is completely trouble free. I even just finished a complete 4 corner caliper rebuild (just to be safe).
I won't lie if I said I'm not surprised that it lasted (The Germans create the most complicated solutions to the simplest problems).
Maybe I'd like to think the assemblers gave it special consideration when it was being screwed together because it was a base car, without a sunroof, so Guenther thought..."hey, this car looks like it may get driven, so I better pay attention.."
My car on the first day of possession, March 3, 2003
First track event with this car, Laguna Seca (excuse the cumbersome hi-8 analog video capture setup)
.
last year annual birthday mountain romp:
Even changed out the water pump when it wasn't broken, AOS, all the hoses, fluids, etc, etc, etc. Definitely didn't spare any expense when it came to service and maintainence.
I wasn't particularly kind when driving either. Most if not all my shifts happened above 4k rpms. I barely drove around the highway at 6th gear unless it was a roadtrip. My belief is that (maybe false trust) is that they made the car to be run. It's a thoroughbred and if you baby it, it's going to get atrophy and when you do finally decide to give it a go, it's gonna break. If you've driven around Germany at length of time, they're not kind to their cars. They're aggressive, so the car addresses it's home market first with driving style, ergonomics, how it handles, speed, etc. At least that's how i'd like to think of it.
It was my daily driver, home depot car, long cross country road trip car several times. Funny enough that when I got a second car that was to become my daily driver due to daily commute, it decides to start complaining. Go figure.
Maybe she just died of old age. Heart gave out, but her brain is still strong. So hopefully, I don't have to spend so much money to resurrect her. As the rest of it is completely trouble free. I even just finished a complete 4 corner caliper rebuild (just to be safe).
I won't lie if I said I'm not surprised that it lasted (The Germans create the most complicated solutions to the simplest problems).
Maybe I'd like to think the assemblers gave it special consideration when it was being screwed together because it was a base car, without a sunroof, so Guenther thought..."hey, this car looks like it may get driven, so I better pay attention.."
My car on the first day of possession, March 3, 2003
First track event with this car, Laguna Seca (excuse the cumbersome hi-8 analog video capture setup)
.last year annual birthday mountain romp:
Last edited by jyoteen; 03-13-2016 at 04:33 PM.
03-13-2016, 05:12 PM
#25
Just curious, any oil system related mods on the car and were you running slicks/R-comps? Regardless, I'm quite impressed it lasted that long, especially for all the track miles put on it.
03-13-2016, 05:25 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I have an X51 oil pan. Never had any engine temp problems (even tracking in the summer, but I have a theory on why not when others wich C2s do and require third radiators. Hell, I basically ran spec oil and then switched to the high mileage Mobil One 10w40 when the car hit 120k miles. No problems. Oil pressure okay (Funny that right before this track event, I replaced the oil pressure sender as it was flaking out and wanted to make sure I didn't get a false reading or it crapped out). I have heard about the whole R compound theory and oil starvation so that's why I put in the X51 pan at 96k miles.
Even checked the oil RIGHT before going out before the engine went too. Oil at half. My friend and mechanic was running the track event too so I even asked him if I should add half a quart but he said to leave it. He was in the car when it went dead. That's his voice on the video with 'I smell coolant' after I shut off the car.
Also I did oil changes before going to the track and then after. I did run R compounds....have been for years, well before getting the Porsche. Nitto NT01s to be exact in the 315 rear variety on Turbo hollow spokes.
On the temps, I can only attribute it to doing regular coolant flushes (like totally purge). Did 4-5 of those so that equates to about once every 30k miles. One of those was forced by having to replace a radiator as the connection to the radiator broke.
The turbo radiators which this car has are deeper core and larger surface area, I believe than the C2. However, since this isn't a turbo, I just think it has more cooling capacity than a C2 (and larger intakes) so I never saw anything other than normal operating temp.
I've subscribed to your thread and following it and funny enough, I was commenting to my buddy to go take Jake's class last month because it would be good information to have as the girl was getting old. I know you're in social as I'm I.
Even checked the oil RIGHT before going out before the engine went too. Oil at half. My friend and mechanic was running the track event too so I even asked him if I should add half a quart but he said to leave it. He was in the car when it went dead. That's his voice on the video with 'I smell coolant' after I shut off the car.
Also I did oil changes before going to the track and then after. I did run R compounds....have been for years, well before getting the Porsche. Nitto NT01s to be exact in the 315 rear variety on Turbo hollow spokes.
On the temps, I can only attribute it to doing regular coolant flushes (like totally purge). Did 4-5 of those so that equates to about once every 30k miles. One of those was forced by having to replace a radiator as the connection to the radiator broke.
The turbo radiators which this car has are deeper core and larger surface area, I believe than the C2. However, since this isn't a turbo, I just think it has more cooling capacity than a C2 (and larger intakes) so I never saw anything other than normal operating temp.
I've subscribed to your thread and following it and funny enough, I was commenting to my buddy to go take Jake's class last month because it would be good information to have as the girl was getting old. I know you're in social as I'm I.
03-13-2016, 05:51 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
Man, it would be hard to lose a friend like that. Lotta good times together on the track, I'm sure. Best of luck to you as you move forward.
03-13-2016, 05:57 PM
#29
I hate to say this but the M96/97 is really not designed for track use. The oil tends to collect at the heads under centrfugal force. Thats's why it uses two scavenge pumps at the heads trying to return the accumulated oil into the sump. Even those are not enough and that's why the x51 has an extra pickup tube on the other side of the head to pick up more accumulated oil. The stock sump late itself is also not enough but you already knew that so you upgraded to the x51 pan. Mobil one definitely is not designed for track use.
However, I think one of the most basic issues is the open deck design of the cylinders that let them distort (oval) over time. Cringely's engine had 100k on it and all cylinders went oval, worst are #2 and #5 with 6 to 7 thou out of round. My guess is you lost a cylinder.
However, I think one of the most basic issues is the open deck design of the cylinders that let them distort (oval) over time. Cringely's engine had 100k on it and all cylinders went oval, worst are #2 and #5 with 6 to 7 thou out of round. My guess is you lost a cylinder.
03-13-2016, 06:14 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Yeah, there is plenty of thought on to the lack of track capability with this engine design. You figure, this was the first car built to a severe cost control (When Porsche was about to close doors), so there is no doubt that extensive compromises were made. Also the first era of watercooled with the intial design, so there are unknowns there too. All cars are built that way. Even the million dollar ones.
Sadly, I can't stay away from the track. It's the one mental vacation I have and cherish and finding this out after you've had the car for a bit is too little, too late.
With all that said, the car is the most fun I've had. It's really a perfect car in other worlds. It's comfortable, really quick, balanced, just feels natural. Few cars achieve that (and I work for a car company).
I'm curious as to what is inside of the engine. But unfortunate for me, the recent Porsche love fest with the GT3 means I can't even get into a 996 GT3 without insane buy in cost. The people who park these cars in the garage drive me crazy. And the result is that those who want to drive these cars can't because the cost of membership is ridiculous for a mass manufactured car.
Sadly, I can't stay away from the track. It's the one mental vacation I have and cherish and finding this out after you've had the car for a bit is too little, too late.
With all that said, the car is the most fun I've had. It's really a perfect car in other worlds. It's comfortable, really quick, balanced, just feels natural. Few cars achieve that (and I work for a car company).
I'm curious as to what is inside of the engine. But unfortunate for me, the recent Porsche love fest with the GT3 means I can't even get into a 996 GT3 without insane buy in cost. The people who park these cars in the garage drive me crazy. And the result is that those who want to drive these cars can't because the cost of membership is ridiculous for a mass manufactured car.
I hate to say this but the M96/97 is really not designed for track use. The oil tends to collect at the heads under centrfugal force. Thats's why it uses two scavenge pumps at the heads trying to return the accumulated oil into the sump. Even those are not enough and that's why the x51 has an extra pickup tube on the other side of the head to pick up more accumulated oil. The stock sump late itself is also not enough but you already knew that so you upgraded to the x51 pan. Mobil one definitely is not designed for track use.
However, I think one of the most basic issues is the open deck design of the cylinders that let them distort (oval) over time. Cringely's engine had 100k on it and all cylinders went oval, worst are #2 and #5 with 6 to 7 thou out of round. My guess is you lost a cylinder.
However, I think one of the most basic issues is the open deck design of the cylinders that let them distort (oval) over time. Cringely's engine had 100k on it and all cylinders went oval, worst are #2 and #5 with 6 to 7 thou out of round. My guess is you lost a cylinder.