How to keep the engine cool / protect it during track days/driver training events
11-05-2015, 05:18 PM
#121
Drifting
I am not qualified to give you that answer. You need advice from the few that repair and race the M96. They also need some robust Engineering and practical mechanical experience.A few nominations:
Brad Roberts
JR + CN
BYProdriver
Pedro - did you read this? :
http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_5/C...g,_part_3.html
Oil temp problems: suggest you research "Shear" and "thermal stability" -both these two issues and foaming can be addressed with appropriate choice of engine oil but you need specific data on all three issues .BITOG may help.
Brad Roberts
JR + CN
BYProdriver
Pedro - did you read this? :
http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_5/C...g,_part_3.html
Oil temp problems: suggest you research "Shear" and "thermal stability" -both these two issues and foaming can be addressed with appropriate choice of engine oil but you need specific data on all three issues .BITOG may help.
11-07-2015, 08:41 PM
#122
Wait a minute … . Pocono, Cal Speedway, banking … you guys are running ovals! Wow, I’d love to try that. But probably never will. Don’t have any here. So I do road courses. How much does that change the picture? I mean, a lot from the driver’s perspective, but how about from the engine’s? Is oil starvation much more of a concern on ovals?
My guess is that at ovals, there are two kinds of drivers: Novices, who will not be pulling a continuous 1g at 150 mph anytime soon (surely the group I’d be in). And oval experts. I can imagine the first group might not need to modify their cars at all to prevent oil starvation, and the second would need to modify just about everything. Does that make sense?
And what about those of us who just do road courses? Are we in the first camp, because even if we are pulling 1.1g in curves, it’s rarely for long (though 1.4 g braking can last for a while, when you have to brake from redline in 5th to 2nd). Or are we in the second, because it’s long enough (or maybe because braking is as bad/worse than lateral g’s?).
My guess is that at ovals, there are two kinds of drivers: Novices, who will not be pulling a continuous 1g at 150 mph anytime soon (surely the group I’d be in). And oval experts. I can imagine the first group might not need to modify their cars at all to prevent oil starvation, and the second would need to modify just about everything. Does that make sense?
And what about those of us who just do road courses? Are we in the first camp, because even if we are pulling 1.1g in curves, it’s rarely for long (though 1.4 g braking can last for a while, when you have to brake from redline in 5th to 2nd). Or are we in the second, because it’s long enough (or maybe because braking is as bad/worse than lateral g’s?).
11-07-2015, 09:20 PM
#123
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Wait a minute … . Pocono, Cal Speedway, banking … you guys are running ovals! Wow, I’d love to try that. But probably never will. Don’t have any here. So I do road courses. How much does that change the picture? I mean, a lot from the driver’s perspective, but how about from the engine’s? Is oil starvation much more of a concern on ovals?
My guess is that at ovals, there are two kinds of drivers: Novices, who will not be pulling a continuous 1g at 150 mph anytime soon (surely the group I’d be in). And oval experts. I can imagine the first group might not need to modify their cars at all to prevent oil starvation, and the second would need to modify just about everything. Does that make sense?
And what about those of us who just do road courses? Are we in the first camp, because even if we are pulling 1.1g in curves, it’s rarely for long (though 1.4 g braking can last for a while, when you have to brake from redline in 5th to 2nd). Or are we in the second, because it’s long enough (or maybe because braking is as bad/worse than lateral g’s?).
My guess is that at ovals, there are two kinds of drivers: Novices, who will not be pulling a continuous 1g at 150 mph anytime soon (surely the group I’d be in). And oval experts. I can imagine the first group might not need to modify their cars at all to prevent oil starvation, and the second would need to modify just about everything. Does that make sense?
And what about those of us who just do road courses? Are we in the first camp, because even if we are pulling 1.1g in curves, it’s rarely for long (though 1.4 g braking can last for a while, when you have to brake from redline in 5th to 2nd). Or are we in the second, because it’s long enough (or maybe because braking is as bad/worse than lateral g’s?).
I don't think anyone just runs Ovals at Porsche track events... that wouldn't be too fun...
11-14-2015, 07:08 PM
#124
I'm still wondering about the oval versus road courses. It seems to me that ovals - and rovals too - must be much worse for oil starvation in 2 ways: First, road courses don't have nearly as many long curves taken at near maximum lateral acceleration throughout. Second, whereas on a road course, after one or two right handers, one will have a left hander that will pull the oil back where it's needed, on an oval, one can have 100 right (or left) handers in a row. A roval is of course better, but you still get 2 or 3 curves in a row that go the same direction, and they are still long ones taken with high lateral acceleration throughout.
It would of course be great if someone could confirm that yes, road courses aren't nearly so tough on the engine (and therefore Porsche was right not to make their motorsport sump deeper, etc., etc.). But if that's not the case, that would be even more important to know ... .
It would of course be great if someone could confirm that yes, road courses aren't nearly so tough on the engine (and therefore Porsche was right not to make their motorsport sump deeper, etc., etc.). But if that's not the case, that would be even more important to know ... .
11-14-2015, 07:55 PM
#126
Three Wheelin'
rs10, oil starvation is a legitimate concern, especially on a banked oval like Pocono Raceway. If you are concerned just install an oil sump upgrade kit. You can diy easily for less than $500. Do it during your next oil change. Kits range from $249 - $549. Problem solved, fairly cheap solution.
11-15-2015, 10:22 AM
#127
(I have no problem using the best oil (whatever that is), or installing a Porsche Motorsport sump with baffles which does not reduce the ground clearance. But I'd rather not do more if it's not needed.)
11-20-2015, 09:01 PM
#128
I came upon a new way to keep things cool - apparently. In the latest EVO magazine there's an article about Zircotec ceramic and aluminum coating, a coating that's apparently used by most F1 teams to reduce the temperature of what it's applied to by up to 30%. Not more expensive than some other upgrades described in this thread - the journalist coated the inlet manifold on his 4 cylinder engine for 372 pounds.
I like that it presumably adds little weight (the coating is 200-250 microns thick), doesn't reduce ground clearance, and is less likely to have adverse side effects than many upgrades (though side effects are probably not an issue for most upgrades described in this thread).
No clue if it would do us much good though, much less where we'd apply it. Non-X51 manifolds are plastic no - not sure it works with plastic. And if applied to headers or exhaust pipes, would it radiate heat from them - but towards the engine? Given how crowded our engine bays are, maybe one of the best candidates would be the oil pan ...
Anyway, I'd be curious what others think or have learned about using this for our cars.
I like that it presumably adds little weight (the coating is 200-250 microns thick), doesn't reduce ground clearance, and is less likely to have adverse side effects than many upgrades (though side effects are probably not an issue for most upgrades described in this thread).
No clue if it would do us much good though, much less where we'd apply it. Non-X51 manifolds are plastic no - not sure it works with plastic. And if applied to headers or exhaust pipes, would it radiate heat from them - but towards the engine? Given how crowded our engine bays are, maybe one of the best candidates would be the oil pan ...
Anyway, I'd be curious what others think or have learned about using this for our cars.
11-21-2015, 10:29 AM
#130
Rennlist Member
Jfc, if you are this worried about it don't track it. Thousands of 996s have been on track and despite the doom and gloom professed by some people, they do just fine.
If you are good enough drover to hurt it, you already know what to do.
If you are good enough drover to hurt it, you already know what to do.
11-21-2015, 06:52 PM
#131
So this thread elicited aroud 120 reponses within a week, then I asked the oval question (post 122), and suddenly all quiet? What shall I make of this – that everyone with an interest in oil starvation drives on ovals?
While I’m sure oil starvation danger does not disapear on road coarses, I’d really like to know whether mild precautions are enough. Can anyone shed some light on this?
While I’m sure oil starvation danger does not disapear on road coarses, I’d really like to know whether mild precautions are enough. Can anyone shed some light on this?
11-21-2015, 10:24 PM
#133
Nordschleife Master
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Originally Posted by rs10
So this thread elicited aroud 120 reponses within a week, then I asked the oval question (post 122), and suddenly all quiet? What shall I make of this – that everyone with an interest in oil starvation drives on ovals?
While I’m sure oil starvation danger does not disapear on road coarses, I’d really like to know whether mild precautions are enough. Can anyone shed some light on this?
While I’m sure oil starvation danger does not disapear on road coarses, I’d really like to know whether mild precautions are enough. Can anyone shed some light on this?
11-22-2015, 07:34 AM
#134
Intermediate
