How to keep the engine cool / protect it during track days/driver training events
10-18-2015, 05:17 PM
#1
How to keep the engine cool / protect it during track days/driver training events
I’ve heard from several people that 996 engines – except for GT3 and turbo engines – cannot survive hard track use. With street tires, it’s OK, they say, but not with semi-slicks like Pilot Cups. Too much grip means oil starvation. I’ve also noted that many on this forum have invested in keeping their engines cool, e.g. with a third radiator. Our engines can apparently have big heat issues. And some suggest that oil starvation is related to heat: Hot Oil might foam up, stopping circulation to parts of the engine.
There are a lot of things which might help with heat in general, and also with oil starvation. I’m wondering – and would appreciate insight into – how well they each work, and what is the minumum one should do. Here’s my list, from small changes to big ones:
1. Just don’t push the car too hard. After every three laps, do a cool down lap. (Worked great for my under-braked previous car.)
2. Switch from 0W-40 to 10W-60. (And switch back for winter.) Several people, at least one quite knowledgeable, have suggested this.
4. Use a special oil. One brand I remember hearing off is Joe Gibbs, I think; I believe there are others. This surprises me a bit. I know small companies often make better products than big ones, but it still seems to me counter intuitive that a small oil producer even most petrol heads has never heard of will make better oil than Mobile or Castrol. If so, and if Porsches have a problem which better oil would solve, wouldn’t Porsche recommend it? Indeed, wouldn’t Porsche use it at Le Mans, and Mecerdes in Formula 1? Maybe what the big oil makers provide to the race teams is better than what they sell to us, but then again, if they can make something better, why wouldn’t they market it to the public at a premium price? All that being said though, I don’t really know.
5. Evans waterless coolant. This is recommended for Porsches by RPM Motorsports in the UK, maybe others too. The idea is that when your engine is hot, even if the radiator fluid doesn’t boil over, pockets of it, in remote parts of the engine, can. And once this happens, the water vapor just sits there, blocking the flow of coolant to those locations. Until boom, time to fix/replace the engine. But this waterless coolant boils a much higher temperature, so problem solved, apparently. Installing the necessary hardware seems to cost a bit over $500, if memory serves.
6. Replace the engine lid and the moveable spoiler with something that directs more air to the engine. Perhaps a GT3 style lid & wing. Or would any of the aftermarket duck tails similar to the 997 GTS's help?
7. Replace the rear bumper. C4S and Turbo style bumpers have big vents behind the wheels, though what is vented here? Heat from the muffler/silencer? If so, does that help much? GT3 rear bumpers also have a vent, though is it for brake heat? (Even if the heat benefit is small, I’m potentially interested in this as some aftermarket immitation C4S and GT3 bumpers claim to reduce weight at the rear.)
8. Replace the front bumper. C4S and 40th Anniversairy edition style bumpers (which are basically the same) direct a lot more air to the radiators – with the result that while X51 engines need three radiators, they only need two on C4Ss and 40 AEs. GT3 bumpers too? Or aerokit bumpers? (Or are these the same as GT3 bumpers?). But surely these bumpers also bring extra drag?
9. Third radiator. This obviously helps. Is it enough alone? And is it necessary, if I choose some of the other steps/changes? I’d prefer not to add weight, even if the front is not the worst place to add it.
10. Modified oil sump &/or pump? I’ve seen a kit online which was designed for this purpose – but it’s no longer available … .
Any thoughts on how well each work, what’s a good combination, etc., would be greatly appreciated!
There are a lot of things which might help with heat in general, and also with oil starvation. I’m wondering – and would appreciate insight into – how well they each work, and what is the minumum one should do. Here’s my list, from small changes to big ones:
1. Just don’t push the car too hard. After every three laps, do a cool down lap. (Worked great for my under-braked previous car.)
2. Switch from 0W-40 to 10W-60. (And switch back for winter.) Several people, at least one quite knowledgeable, have suggested this.
4. Use a special oil. One brand I remember hearing off is Joe Gibbs, I think; I believe there are others. This surprises me a bit. I know small companies often make better products than big ones, but it still seems to me counter intuitive that a small oil producer even most petrol heads has never heard of will make better oil than Mobile or Castrol. If so, and if Porsches have a problem which better oil would solve, wouldn’t Porsche recommend it? Indeed, wouldn’t Porsche use it at Le Mans, and Mecerdes in Formula 1? Maybe what the big oil makers provide to the race teams is better than what they sell to us, but then again, if they can make something better, why wouldn’t they market it to the public at a premium price? All that being said though, I don’t really know.
5. Evans waterless coolant. This is recommended for Porsches by RPM Motorsports in the UK, maybe others too. The idea is that when your engine is hot, even if the radiator fluid doesn’t boil over, pockets of it, in remote parts of the engine, can. And once this happens, the water vapor just sits there, blocking the flow of coolant to those locations. Until boom, time to fix/replace the engine. But this waterless coolant boils a much higher temperature, so problem solved, apparently. Installing the necessary hardware seems to cost a bit over $500, if memory serves.
6. Replace the engine lid and the moveable spoiler with something that directs more air to the engine. Perhaps a GT3 style lid & wing. Or would any of the aftermarket duck tails similar to the 997 GTS's help?
7. Replace the rear bumper. C4S and Turbo style bumpers have big vents behind the wheels, though what is vented here? Heat from the muffler/silencer? If so, does that help much? GT3 rear bumpers also have a vent, though is it for brake heat? (Even if the heat benefit is small, I’m potentially interested in this as some aftermarket immitation C4S and GT3 bumpers claim to reduce weight at the rear.)
8. Replace the front bumper. C4S and 40th Anniversairy edition style bumpers (which are basically the same) direct a lot more air to the radiators – with the result that while X51 engines need three radiators, they only need two on C4Ss and 40 AEs. GT3 bumpers too? Or aerokit bumpers? (Or are these the same as GT3 bumpers?). But surely these bumpers also bring extra drag?
9. Third radiator. This obviously helps. Is it enough alone? And is it necessary, if I choose some of the other steps/changes? I’d prefer not to add weight, even if the front is not the worst place to add it.
10. Modified oil sump &/or pump? I’ve seen a kit online which was designed for this purpose – but it’s no longer available … .
Any thoughts on how well each work, what’s a good combination, etc., would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by rs10; 10-18-2015 at 06:45 PM.
10-18-2015, 07:34 PM
#2
Race Director
The car is not intended for track use, so in doing so you are using it in a way that brings with it risk.
If you insist on using the car on the track the sky is the limit as to what you can do to improve the chances the car will not suffer any serious issues due to oiling or insufficient cooling or some combination.
It should be obvious but before any mods are done the car should be in tip top shape. If the cooling system has a small leak it makes no sense to fit a 3rd radiator until this is fixed.
If one insists on showing up at the track with heavily diluted oil, in that condition from say short trips to and from the grocery store, there is no real benefit to fitting a deeper sump pan.
Fresh oil of the proper viscosity is of course very important. 10w-60 could be too viscous. I was always told that the viscosity of the oil to use depends upon the clearances the engine has. If one wants to build a "loose" engine then a heavier oil is probably required. These engines are intended for street use and as such have pretty tight clearances. A "tight" engine is quieter, less polluting just better for street use. My auto tech buddies advised me to when building an engine for the street to shoot for tighter clearances while still staying within the factory specifications.
So putting in 10w-60 could have the engine starved for oil at very high RPMs because the oil while it gets into the bearing courtesy of an oil pump suppling maybe nearly 90PSI of oil pressure it may not get out of the bearing as readily finding it hard to squeeze through the gap between the bearing journal and the bearing shell that may be just a thousandths of an inch or so.
Also, the thicker oil may run hotter as considerable heat is generated from the molecular friction of oil in these tight spaces. The thicker oil may run hotter and could run hotter enough to break down. By running a thicker oil one might bring about the very oil break down he's seeking to avoid.
If one believes 5w-40 is not "thick" enough there is always 5w-50 oil (not a typo for 15w-50!).
In the oiling department fitting a deeper sump and of course a longer oil pick up tube could help.
If the engine has an inherent weakness in oiling one or more of its bearings as I think some suggest then you might have to open the engine up and have this shortcoming addressed.
If one can run a larger oil cooler or an extra one -- maybe even one for the tranny/diff too -- that can help control oil temperature.
For the cooling system it should be leak free. I'd seriously consider a 3rd radiator and perhaps a mod to have the radiator fans start out running at low speed but this can in no way prevent them from running at high speed when commanded by the DME. It would be very nice to have something in the cabin to actually monitor coolant and oil temperature too.
BTW, you can choose to make mods that add a bit of weight to buy the some extra margin or you can elect to run light and risk the engine blowing up. Up to you but you can't "win" if you don't finish.
Frankly, I doubt the extra weight the 3rd radiator adds will be the biggest factor in lap times.
A very simple protection against damaging the engine due to too high coolant or oil temperature is to observe the temperature creeping up and back off or call the session to a halt and let the engine idle for a while in the pits to shed its considerable heat load.
I would run anti-freeze and distilled water -- fresh too and not that 6 to 10 year old stuff... -- unless track rules disallow anti-freeze for safety reasons.
What keeps the coolant from boiling/flashing to steam is pressure. This means that the engine cooling system must be pressure tight up to whatever pressure the system is intended to experience and tolerate.
This requires the radiators, coolant tank, hoses, and coolant hose fittings, and the AOS and the oil/water heat exchangers all are in good shape. Tip top shape.
As for aerodynamic mods...Without a wind tunnel to test before and after any aerodynamic mods any aerodynamic mods you make could make things worse.
Generally you want to limit the amount of air that goes under the car. This creates a low pressure area under the car and helps keep the car on the track. It also helps air flow through the radiators as the air enters from a high pressure area and exits into a low pressure area.
But too much "air dam" at the front of the car could have the front of the car being pushed down and without a decrease in lift or an increase in down force at the rear of the car could have the car's balance out of whack and its handling at speed negatively affected.
Also, bigger radiator ducts could have the nose getting light as these could catch air -- as they are intended to do -- but do so in a way that creates lift rather than down force or just being neutral in this regard.
The openings at the rear of the Turbo one at each corner of the rear bumper are to let air exit after having flowed through the intercooler. There is also the issue of helping air flow from above the engine compartment down through the compartment and exiting, too.
There might be some gain to be had by modifying the engine compartment fan circuit to run the fan all the time. (My 996 Turbo has an extra fuse that when installed has the engine compartment fan running all the time the engine is on. This does not affect the engine compartment fan coming on after the engine has been turned off if the engine compartment temperature climbs too high. I do not know if the 996 N/A models have this extra fuse although I have not heard/read about it so probably not.)
Before you make any changes in this area it would be nice to have some instrumentation and to monitor the air temperature in the engine compartment to see if the temperature is running at a too high elevated level. You might be attempting to fix something that doesn't need fixing. The less of this the less chance of making things worse rather than better.
Extra "wing" or a whale tail at the rear could have a negative effect on the car's aerodynamics. Too much reduction in lift or too much increase in downforce could have the nose of the car up and it can catch air and the car could get light when you least expect it.
Also, air flow may be less optimum through the engine compartment.
And so on.
Without good data to back up any mods are suspect. What's the saying? Without data anyone can claim success or something like that.
If you insist on using the car on the track the sky is the limit as to what you can do to improve the chances the car will not suffer any serious issues due to oiling or insufficient cooling or some combination.
It should be obvious but before any mods are done the car should be in tip top shape. If the cooling system has a small leak it makes no sense to fit a 3rd radiator until this is fixed.
If one insists on showing up at the track with heavily diluted oil, in that condition from say short trips to and from the grocery store, there is no real benefit to fitting a deeper sump pan.
Fresh oil of the proper viscosity is of course very important. 10w-60 could be too viscous. I was always told that the viscosity of the oil to use depends upon the clearances the engine has. If one wants to build a "loose" engine then a heavier oil is probably required. These engines are intended for street use and as such have pretty tight clearances. A "tight" engine is quieter, less polluting just better for street use. My auto tech buddies advised me to when building an engine for the street to shoot for tighter clearances while still staying within the factory specifications.
So putting in 10w-60 could have the engine starved for oil at very high RPMs because the oil while it gets into the bearing courtesy of an oil pump suppling maybe nearly 90PSI of oil pressure it may not get out of the bearing as readily finding it hard to squeeze through the gap between the bearing journal and the bearing shell that may be just a thousandths of an inch or so.
Also, the thicker oil may run hotter as considerable heat is generated from the molecular friction of oil in these tight spaces. The thicker oil may run hotter and could run hotter enough to break down. By running a thicker oil one might bring about the very oil break down he's seeking to avoid.
If one believes 5w-40 is not "thick" enough there is always 5w-50 oil (not a typo for 15w-50!).
In the oiling department fitting a deeper sump and of course a longer oil pick up tube could help.
If the engine has an inherent weakness in oiling one or more of its bearings as I think some suggest then you might have to open the engine up and have this shortcoming addressed.
If one can run a larger oil cooler or an extra one -- maybe even one for the tranny/diff too -- that can help control oil temperature.
For the cooling system it should be leak free. I'd seriously consider a 3rd radiator and perhaps a mod to have the radiator fans start out running at low speed but this can in no way prevent them from running at high speed when commanded by the DME. It would be very nice to have something in the cabin to actually monitor coolant and oil temperature too.
BTW, you can choose to make mods that add a bit of weight to buy the some extra margin or you can elect to run light and risk the engine blowing up. Up to you but you can't "win" if you don't finish.
Frankly, I doubt the extra weight the 3rd radiator adds will be the biggest factor in lap times.
A very simple protection against damaging the engine due to too high coolant or oil temperature is to observe the temperature creeping up and back off or call the session to a halt and let the engine idle for a while in the pits to shed its considerable heat load.
I would run anti-freeze and distilled water -- fresh too and not that 6 to 10 year old stuff... -- unless track rules disallow anti-freeze for safety reasons.
What keeps the coolant from boiling/flashing to steam is pressure. This means that the engine cooling system must be pressure tight up to whatever pressure the system is intended to experience and tolerate.
This requires the radiators, coolant tank, hoses, and coolant hose fittings, and the AOS and the oil/water heat exchangers all are in good shape. Tip top shape.
As for aerodynamic mods...Without a wind tunnel to test before and after any aerodynamic mods any aerodynamic mods you make could make things worse.
Generally you want to limit the amount of air that goes under the car. This creates a low pressure area under the car and helps keep the car on the track. It also helps air flow through the radiators as the air enters from a high pressure area and exits into a low pressure area.
But too much "air dam" at the front of the car could have the front of the car being pushed down and without a decrease in lift or an increase in down force at the rear of the car could have the car's balance out of whack and its handling at speed negatively affected.
Also, bigger radiator ducts could have the nose getting light as these could catch air -- as they are intended to do -- but do so in a way that creates lift rather than down force or just being neutral in this regard.
The openings at the rear of the Turbo one at each corner of the rear bumper are to let air exit after having flowed through the intercooler. There is also the issue of helping air flow from above the engine compartment down through the compartment and exiting, too.
There might be some gain to be had by modifying the engine compartment fan circuit to run the fan all the time. (My 996 Turbo has an extra fuse that when installed has the engine compartment fan running all the time the engine is on. This does not affect the engine compartment fan coming on after the engine has been turned off if the engine compartment temperature climbs too high. I do not know if the 996 N/A models have this extra fuse although I have not heard/read about it so probably not.)
Before you make any changes in this area it would be nice to have some instrumentation and to monitor the air temperature in the engine compartment to see if the temperature is running at a too high elevated level. You might be attempting to fix something that doesn't need fixing. The less of this the less chance of making things worse rather than better.
Extra "wing" or a whale tail at the rear could have a negative effect on the car's aerodynamics. Too much reduction in lift or too much increase in downforce could have the nose of the car up and it can catch air and the car could get light when you least expect it.
Also, air flow may be less optimum through the engine compartment.
And so on.
Without good data to back up any mods are suspect. What's the saying? Without data anyone can claim success or something like that.
10-18-2015, 08:21 PM
#3
Join Date: May 2010
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Not sure what level driver you are...not that is makes so much difference. I have been faithfully taking my car to the track for the past 8 years. It is a c-2 no fancy aero aids. Not really needed. My car has been bullet proof. I do run Hoosiers, had a deep sump pan installed with the baffle added. No issues. Yes, your car might smoke a bit on start-up, if that bothers the hell out of you, then go for the Porsche Motorsport AOS, works great.
Depending on the miles on your car, I would make sure that the water pump is working in fine condition, too. No need to add a 3rd radiator, or accusump for that matter. I haven't changed out the thermostat, either. Once you really get traveling with serious velocity, you should consider GT3 duct work for the front brakes (Or cup car ducts). Adding more air, rushing over the rotors and calipers helps with braking. I would also recommend a higher temp brake fluid, (i.e, Motul RBF 600, or something as good or better-and your brake fluid needs to be completely flushed, each year, at least in the beginning or your track season), also depending on the number of times that you go and where you go to the track, I would bleed my brake calipers every other event, as the system does not recirculate.
There is no real need to go crazy with mods. Put a wing on the rear, now the front needs a lip to keep the car balanced. I would suggest that if you are just getting started, (with PCA) you will need a good helmet and a solid mount fire extinguisher, a great attitude and the ability to listen to your instructor. Once you get into the upper run groups, you can invest more $$ into mods. Safety, should be your first thought...... and find yourself a good indie shop that understands track car set-up. If the addiction grabs you, you might want to consider changing the alignment, corner balancing, etc., depending on how often you will be tracking the car and if you will still be driving it on the street.
This whole process can be a slippery slope. The single most important factor is the nut behind the steering wheel. You can mod the hell out of your car, but once you get into it, pro coaching will make the biggest difference in your ability to drive and drive well, not so much the $$ you spend on go fast goodies....if you have any questions feel free to reach out. I would love to help........
Oh, and BTW: have you done anything with the IMS?
Depending on the miles on your car, I would make sure that the water pump is working in fine condition, too. No need to add a 3rd radiator, or accusump for that matter. I haven't changed out the thermostat, either. Once you really get traveling with serious velocity, you should consider GT3 duct work for the front brakes (Or cup car ducts). Adding more air, rushing over the rotors and calipers helps with braking. I would also recommend a higher temp brake fluid, (i.e, Motul RBF 600, or something as good or better-and your brake fluid needs to be completely flushed, each year, at least in the beginning or your track season), also depending on the number of times that you go and where you go to the track, I would bleed my brake calipers every other event, as the system does not recirculate.
There is no real need to go crazy with mods. Put a wing on the rear, now the front needs a lip to keep the car balanced. I would suggest that if you are just getting started, (with PCA) you will need a good helmet and a solid mount fire extinguisher, a great attitude and the ability to listen to your instructor. Once you get into the upper run groups, you can invest more $$ into mods. Safety, should be your first thought...... and find yourself a good indie shop that understands track car set-up. If the addiction grabs you, you might want to consider changing the alignment, corner balancing, etc., depending on how often you will be tracking the car and if you will still be driving it on the street.
This whole process can be a slippery slope. The single most important factor is the nut behind the steering wheel. You can mod the hell out of your car, but once you get into it, pro coaching will make the biggest difference in your ability to drive and drive well, not so much the $$ you spend on go fast goodies....if you have any questions feel free to reach out. I would love to help........
Oh, and BTW: have you done anything with the IMS?
10-18-2015, 09:10 PM
#4
Drifting
Yes, the engine oil also conducts significant amounts of heat and therefore acts as a cooling fluid and lubricant .
You mention two interesting issues -
1.foaming and
2.deep sumps.
Both subjects have been discussed many times but seldom as related issues.
Imho a baffled deep sump with a well designed and intelligently located horizontal baffle will help the foaming,the oil cooling and ensure the oil pickup is always submerged.
Some of the old deep sumps had no horizontal baffle or it was placed too low+close to the sump plate.
I mention this because if the vertical baffles fail to stop the oil 'climbing' the walls of the sump,then the horizontal baffle is essential.
This video from Porsche may be illustrative:
You mention two interesting issues -
1.foaming and
2.deep sumps.
Both subjects have been discussed many times but seldom as related issues.
Imho a baffled deep sump with a well designed and intelligently located horizontal baffle will help the foaming,the oil cooling and ensure the oil pickup is always submerged.
Some of the old deep sumps had no horizontal baffle or it was placed too low+close to the sump plate.
I mention this because if the vertical baffles fail to stop the oil 'climbing' the walls of the sump,then the horizontal baffle is essential.
This video from Porsche may be illustrative:
10-19-2015, 02:07 PM
#5
I would endorse 5w50 synthetic , Evans waterless coolant and the 3rd radiator kit and the deep sump kit.
I would add the low temperature thermostat kit which will start flow earlier
I would add the low temperature thermostat kit which will start flow earlier
10-19-2015, 02:44 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
What year is your car? Is it a manual or automatic? Tiptronic cars already have a 3rd radiator installed. Maybe c4s already has a 3rd radiator.
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10-19-2015, 02:47 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Your c4s may already have larger "turbo" radiators, which may be the reason there is no real need for a 3rd radiator.
10-19-2015, 03:54 PM
#9
It's a 2004 c4s manual ... I haven't actually checked to see if it has a 3rd one. I just find it confusing they say it's not for the c4s on the parts sites online, if it did come standard you still might have to replace it? Unfortunately my car isn't close to me, I'd go check and see.
10-19-2015, 06:11 PM
#11
Interesting. So I've read the C4S / 40AE bumpers allow momre air to reach the radiators and assumed they would therefore help with cooling. But perhaps they don't help wihout TT radiators? Or ... ?
10-19-2015, 06:26 PM
#12
Thanks everyone for the helpful replies!
After reading them I'm reminded that the best solution depends not only on the car, but also on the driver and what he wants to do. So maybe I should say a bit about my situation. Although I'm a fairly experienced track driver, I have not yet driven my Porsche on track, I'll probably only do so 2-5 times per year, and I'm not looking to race it or set lap records. My main concern is how it drives on the street (and I like how light it feels, hence my concern about adding weight), but when on track, I don't want to blow the engine. I am considering/making other mods, including safety related, brakes, etc. (Though given what I want to do with the car, I'm starting with Pagids, Castrol SRF, and some brake paint so I can see how much they heat up. Goodrich cables can wait, and a BBK is not on my shortlist.) My questions in this thread are about cooling the engine and also, since changing the front or rear bumpers and engine cover has aero effects, a little bit about aerodynamics too. If I were to change one end, I would of course want to change the other to balance it. How to balance it maybe deserves another thread. Like the other thread I started yesterday: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...mance-etc.html :-) But I thought I should ask how this impacts cooling here.
Thanks again!
After reading them I'm reminded that the best solution depends not only on the car, but also on the driver and what he wants to do. So maybe I should say a bit about my situation. Although I'm a fairly experienced track driver, I have not yet driven my Porsche on track, I'll probably only do so 2-5 times per year, and I'm not looking to race it or set lap records. My main concern is how it drives on the street (and I like how light it feels, hence my concern about adding weight), but when on track, I don't want to blow the engine. I am considering/making other mods, including safety related, brakes, etc. (Though given what I want to do with the car, I'm starting with Pagids, Castrol SRF, and some brake paint so I can see how much they heat up. Goodrich cables can wait, and a BBK is not on my shortlist.) My questions in this thread are about cooling the engine and also, since changing the front or rear bumpers and engine cover has aero effects, a little bit about aerodynamics too. If I were to change one end, I would of course want to change the other to balance it. How to balance it maybe deserves another thread. Like the other thread I started yesterday: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...mance-etc.html :-) But I thought I should ask how this impacts cooling here.
Thanks again!
Last edited by rs10; 10-19-2015 at 06:50 PM.
10-19-2015, 06:28 PM
#13
Yes, the engine oil also conducts significant amounts of heat and therefore acts as a cooling fluid and lubricant .
You mention two interesting issues -
1.foaming and
2.deep sumps.
Both subjects have been discussed many times but seldom as related issues.
Imho a baffled deep sump with a well designed and intelligently located horizontal baffle will help the foaming,the oil cooling and ensure the oil pickup is always submerged.
Some of the old deep sumps had no horizontal baffle or it was placed too low+close to the sump plate.
I mention this because if the vertical baffles fail to stop the oil 'climbing' the walls of the sump,then the horizontal baffle is essential.
You mention two interesting issues -
1.foaming and
2.deep sumps.
Both subjects have been discussed many times but seldom as related issues.
Imho a baffled deep sump with a well designed and intelligently located horizontal baffle will help the foaming,the oil cooling and ensure the oil pickup is always submerged.
Some of the old deep sumps had no horizontal baffle or it was placed too low+close to the sump plate.
I mention this because if the vertical baffles fail to stop the oil 'climbing' the walls of the sump,then the horizontal baffle is essential.
10-19-2015, 06:33 PM
#14
10-19-2015, 06:35 PM
#15
Do you think it's necessary to add all of these? Or would, say, 5w50 and one of the other changes be enough, or ... ?