AWDGuy

I sent the ims & their IMSB to LNE for inspection prior to my build. they sent me shiny new parts.

Flat6 Innovations

Quite the contrary.There's a ton more to UOA than wear metal results. Viscosity, TBN (is the oil dead) TAN (what were the acid levels in the oil?) and fuel contamination percentage are just a few of them. Watching these things, and seeing how much of the anti- wear package remains in the oil completes the puzzle about whats truly going on.

gnat

(Just asking) is it really that telling though? Isn't it only going to tell you that one OCI and wouldn't it take more than one interval to cause a problem?

For example the PO followed the original 15k interval, but then the unlucky new owner changed it religiously at 5k intervals. Even if it went at the end of the interval, shouldn't the oil come back looking pretty good other than what the failing motor dumped into it?

Flat6 Innovations

No way. An engine can have an IMSB that has has yet to hit stage 1 failure, and the bearing can go through all 4 stages of failure within one 5K service interval.

I have seen this over and over again, and witnessed it first hand with a lady's Boxster that we serviced locally. Filter, sump and UOA perfect at 41K miles, passed the finger test, and the black light test, too. At 44.5K miles the engine lost an IMSB out of the blue. She owned the car since new and we took care of it for 20K miles. She refused to listen to me, and she paid the ultimate price, and the car ended up as a race car when she bailed on it.

It was at that point where I required any local that wanted its to service their engine to carry out an IMSR procedure.

USNA1970

I like the sound of that. I have been pulling my filter at about 2500 miles and checking it out. Then changing the oil and filter at 4-5k. I am pretty sure oil can last very long (10k plus miles) if the engine is not running poorly. But that is just it, how do we know from one week to the next how well the engine is doing. Everything could be running smooth with no noises or power loss, but the oil could start to show something that is not obvious. I am just hoping to catch something at the earliest stage at the cost of more oil changes and getting under the car and pulling the oil canister. Given the potential savings, I am willing to take these extra steps. I also understand that my IMSB may just blow up and their is nothing that I am doing that can prevent that. But two new wheel bearings in the front, car drives like a dream and that is all I try to think about for now. lol

Imo000

I was referring to your post only.

docmirror

And I posted in reply to your post only. We have actual measurements here, we have literally millions of hours of NRRO and repeatable run-out(pretzel shafts) history to work with. If you think it's an internet theory - you are way wrong.

pesuazo

After reading a 217 posts of this thread, I came to the same conclusion as 3 years ago (post 48 of a thread called "IMS bearing?"......)
The problem is not the bearing.....the problem is something else that causes the bearing to fail.........

Schnell Gelb

O.K. but while we are hunting for the Holy Grail of one or more multiple (fundamental) causes of IMSB failure, we need a palliative. The best still seems to be a lubricated plain bearing called "The Solution" ?
The next best alternative is debatable.

llis

The IMSS sounds great, but due to out-of-stock issues and the nearest certified installer being some 260 miles on an interstate going through heavy road construction pretty much all along the way, I'm going with the Gen2.

LIFE ON THE EDGE!

Schnell Gelb

Jake mentioned that The Solution will be back in stock within a couple of weeks - Call RND or SSF ?
IIis (above)is fitting LN # 106.08.2.2 for the noobs. This is a confusing product because the phrase "Single Row" is used in the name but the description says it is "dual row". So which is it ?
I'll try to explain but welcome clarifications:
The LN Gen 2 Single Row Pro replaces the IMS bearing on shafts that were originally fitted with simple single row bearing (like generic # 6204). But the upgrade replacement from LN has an unusual staggered dual row of bearings - not exactly double row ,but close. That is why(??) it is called dual, not double row.
The 1977 SKF patent for this unusual bearing is US 4055371 A
https://www.google.com/patents/US4055371
Because the staggered 2(dual) row bearing has a greater number of ***** than a single row bearing . it has a much higher load capacity than the original single row. But the load capacity is slightly less than a comparable, conventional double row bearing .
Because this dual bearing is deeper than the original single row ,it requires a different retaining system. There is no space for the original simple circlip on the face of the bearing. A clever spirolock is used instead and special installation tool kit is required.
http://imsretrofit.com/gen-2-single-row-ims-retrofit/
The theoretical alternative to the staggered 'dual' row bearing to achieve a higher load capacity is a cylindrical roller bearing - for example:
http://lnengineering.com/products/im...rofit-kit.html
There are no staggered row bearings from other sources than LN. There are single row ball and cylindrical roller bearings for single row IMS shafts from others.For example:
http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_2/TechnoFix_DOF.html
http://tunersmotorsports.com/trs-dev...rect-oil-feed/
The warranty & Pro-install issues are a separate subject.
I hope this helps with the basic understanding of the differences for noobs.Feel free to improve ! And yes, I have replaced the IMS bearing on my own engine,have the LN tools etc........

llis

Thanks, Schnell Gelb. To clarify, this is what's in store for my car: http://imsretrofit.com/gen-2-single-row-ims-retrofit/ professionally installed by an LN-approved, well-respected local shop.

Jake, to bring this thread hopefully to a TL;DR level: Are you saying the IMSS is the only recommended way to go now?

jhbrennan

Here's what he has to say:

http://theimssolution.com/2016/09/16...t-vs-solution/

Flat6 Innovations

I am completely biased toward the IMS Solution for many reasons. Primarily because its the most simple way to control the IMS assembly, and it has no *****, no cage, or any of the wear parts of a ball, or roller bearing.

The other reason is because I have a HUGE chunk of my life in this invention. In fact, I have spent more than 1/4 of my life developing, and perfecting this product.

Traveling 240 miles to a Certified Installer isn't bad. I have a 996 here now that came from Vancouver BC, over 3K miles away to have my team install The IMS Solution.

We don't give away Certifications. We hand select (by invitation only) those who will be accepted to begin evaluation enter the program. This is done in my hands on classes, and attendees have no idea they are going to be selected. If we are impressed in the class, and the shop has a flawless reputation, then we move forward with the Certification processes. These include an on site visit, practical application, and written examinations, and each installer must conform to our Code Of Conduct with every single job with no deviation. If we receive one complaint from a customer of one of these shops, and can quantify it, the Certification is pulled immediately.

Is the IMS Solution the only way to go? Well, I invented and developed it for my engines, and I kind of wish I hadn't released it to the market. As popular as it has become my wait list for a turn key engine would be two years, not just one. Maybe more.

But, its never too late to hoard it!

Ben Z

I have a new RND engine and went with The Solution. It made sense to go the extra expense because it's a zero-miles engine with beyond-OEM-durability upgrades and I plan on keeping the car till it serves as my coffin On a factory-stock engine with miles on it, and/or not plans to keep the car forever, I would probably go with the LN retrofit. I had the original LN single-row in mine for 30K miles and it came out looking like new, and the Pro is that much beefier.