So; my car had misfiring problems. I brought it to my local shop ... new spark plugs / coils and checked the compression. The car was fixed for way too much money; and now 60 days later ... it failed again.

So now I brought it to the dealer ship and they 'hope' it is the valve. So to even diagnose it ... $1,800 and then another $4,000 to fix it. If its not the valve and something worse; then it will cost 'a lot more'

Its a 2005 C4S with 93k miles; do I just trade it in at this point? Or try and get it fixed and keep going?

I absolutely love the car; and would keep it forever if it worked. But Im a bit worried that my starting fix is $6k and it could cost a lot more; on a car worth $20-25k

Any recommendations?

 

What "valve" are they talking about?

 

Get it to a good independent mechanic. The car is 10 years old now and the dealership is not the best place to take a car that old. Not saying they cannot fix it, but they are more concerned about the warranty work on the newer cars than staying up to date on repairs for 996s. On the other hand, an independent Porsche mechanic makes his money off the cars that are out of warranty.

 

"The valve?"

You're getting jerked. What exactly did they quote you $1,800 to diagnose?!?

 

+1 kcattorney

 

+2 kcattorney

 

Will do. The independent guy that has been servicing my car for years ended up killing me; hence why i brought it to the dealer. The indie charged me $2,850 over two services ... and the problem happened again 60 days later.

And yeah; it was $1,800 to take off the valves to look at them and see if they were the problem (diagnosis only).

Thanks guys; you are the best.

 

Hmmn, Not much of this makes sense. What are they stating "failed"?

What independent shop is this? Where are you located? I may have trained someone near you.

 

I'm in Fairfield County in CT

The indie did a bunch of work; none of it worked. The Porsche guys think its either a valve or the lift. But need to diagnose the issue first ($1,800). They said best case scenario its the valves and they can fix for $4,000 (so $1,800 + $4,000)

And the car already has 93k miles; hence my concern about dumping a lot of cash into it

And thanks Jake; I've always enjoyed the advances you have made for us 996 drivers.

 

Persistent misfires can arise from a number of causes. Plugs and coils which of course have already been changed.

Another source is believe it or not the MAF. This is a rare situation based on what I've come across but it is real.

Another explanation is a burned valve, exhaust valve. A co-worker had a persistent misfire with his car -- not a Porsche. Actually make that two co-workers. The first one a couple of years ago. His Subie was misfiring. More recently a Ford was misfiring. With the first co-worker we talked about the misfires and he had all the usual things taken care of with no luck. While I did mention a burned valve I only mentioned this to be thorough. Finally he let the indy shop tech remove the head of the misfiring cylinder and the tech found a burned exhaust valve. (I used to have a picture of this valve somewhere on my hard disk.)

In the case of the Ford again I went over with the owner the usual suspects and he had them all addressed. When these didn't help I remembered the first co-worker's misfiring and again suggested that while I hoped I was wrong it could be a burned valve. Well, it wasn't. It was a bent valve. Somehow the driver overreved the engine and bent at least one valve. After a valve job the engine is running just fine.

In the case of the Porsche engine before I suspected a burned valve or a bent valve there is the VarioCam Plus.

What can happen is the low lift/high lift (the "Plus" in VarioCam Plus) feature doesn't work right. There are documented tests for a tech to follow to determine if this is the problem.

If it is the fix involves replacing the intake valve lifters on the bank with the misfiring cylinder(s).

Based on my layman's understanding of the tests I do not see $1800 in labor. A couple of hours maybe, and part of the time two techs are needed. Some testing involves driving the car while monitoring O2 sensor readings and for this two techs are needed.

As for the cost of the repair, that is the cost to replace the valve lifters, $4000 seems high. AFAIK, the engine need not be removed from the car. Based on when my Boxster had to have its VarioCam solenoid/actuator replaced -- the basic labor is about the same -- I would estimate 6 to 8 hours labor. I do not know the cost of new lifters. 12 are needed. Say they are $100/each that's $1200. Say the labor is 10 hours. At $150/hour (dealer labor rate) that's $1500. Add in $1200 and that's $2700. Call it $3000 for the job then plus the labor for confirming it is the lifters if the shop doesn't absorb the cost of the diagnosis given the size of the repair bill.

 

Get the car out of the dealership ASAP! Clearly you know very little about engines and sounds like theynare feeding into this. What makes you think the indy ripped you off? After all, the car ran fine for 2 months. I strongly suggest you either educate yourself on car lingo, find a good shop that will exactly tell you what they are going to do or sell the car and buy another with a full warranty.

 

In defense of the OP, I would offer this as some sign the indy "ripped" him off:

"The indie charged me $2,850 over two services ... and the problem happened again 60 days later."

That the behavior was absent for 2 months could be attributed to the intermittent characteristic many problems these engines and their sensor and control systems manifest.

This doesn't mean I would throw in with the dealer's "diagnosis" either but I have to admit it has some basis in fact given the behavior and with the benefit of what was done before that proved to not to address the symptoms, and its cost estimate seems high to me as well but often dealers estimate high for these types of jobs as often other things come up.

(Case in point: My Boxster is in for plugs. Tech found after he removed the plugs some spark tubes were loose and leaking. He contacted me with the news and asked what I wanted to do. I gave him the go-ahead to remove the 3rd tube -- it was stuck -- and replace any cracked tubes (there were none) and the o-rings, some of which were in pieces. I never received a quote for the plug job but had I asked for one I'm sure it would be have been a bit high to possibly account for things the tech often runs into. Of course, had the job gone smoothly the real cost would have been adjusted down some, too.)

 

Seriously! What shop did you take it to? There are plenty of competent shops around.

PM me if you want recommendations.

 

I'm still new here, but first, I was thinking to take my car to an Indy mechanic, referred by a friend who owns a 997 just for maintenance, first thing when I was stepping into his garage was to do the IMS upgrade, clutch, tires and the routine maintenance so I was a little bit overwhelmed, how can you diagnose all that without even see the car?
I took it to a Porsche dealer to do, full inspection and maintenance,the dealer was always in touch with me, I even have a chance to talk with the mechanic who was doing the work, 20 years experience at the Porsche dealer I ask him about the clutch, IMS, tires, etc, he said there is no need to change the clutch, is working fine and I will get 30000 or more miles.
The IMS since the 996 was introduce he saw 4 vehicles which had the engine killed because the IMS failure 2 were 1999 and the other 2, 2000, he told me the risk for a 2003 to have that failure is 2% or less, tires he give me around 400 miles more and to top it off the cashier has a 36DDD knockers which make me forget about how much extra I"m paying .

If you have the money and you want a through diagnose and fix go with the dealer, 5800 is a lot of money but it may save you thousands more in the long run, if you're planning to keep your car. If not, save that money and jump to a 997 or 991.

 

Does she have a side job?