wildbilly32

AWDGuy

I think 5000 sold to date and not 1 failure is pretty huge deal.

but how can we belive it? I think you're on the right track to gather EPS clients with this bearing to get some data behind it.

Schnell Gelb

Agreed .
5000 installations yet so few ppl here have one.Hmmmm.Why?
Speak up EPS ppl. Otherwise the claim of 5000 Installations sounds like just more hyperbole.
We need the facts. And any RND roller bearing failures?
And to be fair to all, please mention if the failure was non-product related.Lots of sloppy Installs at the low end of the IMSB market?
BTW, anyone got a copy of the EPS Pre-Qualification and Installation Instructions? I ask because if they are good, that will skew the data - as it does for LN.

That is a good thing- for the pedantic !
And what extraction/insertion tool do they sell ? Raby's design?
Edit - I found these Instructions:
https://www.europeanpartssolution.co...-instructions/

jaetee

So the million dollar question becomes.... How much dynamic thrust load capacity is necessary to do the job? My guess is that if you exceed a roller bearings thrust load capacity while it's in the M96 doing it's thing, there will be other much more severe issues involved that dramaticaly minimize the importance of the engine in the grand scheme of things.

Porschetech3

A few observations of the technical data and questions on this topic,( I have no preference, data , or speculation on which is the better or more durable of these options.) regarding the EPS and RND cylindrical bearings


RND uses the Koyo NUP204E bearing

EPS uses the NJ204 bearing

The Koyo NUP204E has thrust control in " both directions" as its original design which has been around for a long time. I like it because it's simple and can be a direct replacement for the single row bearing as is.

The EPS NJ204 has thrust control in only "one direction" hence the need for the "patented" thrust control/

The magic number for thrust rating is I assume less than 580# (hence the RND NUP204E rated at 580#)

The rating for the EPS NJ204 of 375# is useless because it doesn't use this mechanism for thrust, it uses a thrustwasher/flange for thrust. Is the thrust now higher than 375# ? or 580#? who knows, it could be since it has a larger surface, but would depend on the metal properties. These "modified" thrust numbers have not been published, even in the patent.

Both of these bearings have considerable LESS thrust control than ANY deep groove BALL bearing(ie; the favorite LN Ceramic Hybrid) but have WAY more dynamic or static load than ANY deep groove BALL bearing.

The RND Koyo NUP204E has the highest radial load rating due to more rollers but that will mean it needs more lubrication and cooling due to higher friction.

I actually think they are both good options !!

Schnell Gelb

Interesting analysis.Thank you for the insights.
"I actually think they are both good options !!"
Just for clarity -which both ? The RND Koyo NUP204E & the LN Ceramic hybrid?
I've had that bearing on my Amazon Prime list since September 20, 2016 !They list it as : *** NUP204E-TVP2

Porschetech3

The RND Koyo NUP204 E and the EPS NJ204 with "modified" thrust control. I am assuming the "modified " thrust control puts its capabilities at or near 580# of the NUP204E. But BOTH are way higher in the radial load capabilities than the Classic Single Row LN Ceramic Hybrid.

Charles Navarro

RND indeed uses a Koyo NJ204E bearing. It's the best one we could spec out if money was no expense for SSF Auto Parts.

Thanks for posting this. Here are some specs from Koyo:

The Koyo (Japan) bearing book lists the 6204 at 2890 Lbs dynamic load and a standard NJ204 roller bearing at 3750 Lbs; a 30% increase.

The NJ204E is an "extra capacity" roller bearing designed to handle a higher load, and it is listed at 5800 Lbs dynamic load rating, a 100% increase.

I believe as long as Vertex hasn't changed their supplier since we purchased and tested their kit back in 2013, they supply a URB bearing made in Romania.

Sneaky Pete

Well after a lazy day at work and having some time to do some googelage....some pics appeared that seem interesting. Don't know the back story but here yuh go for your viewing pleasure.

Porschetech3

Your welcome !

Just a bit of typo correction. The Koyo NJ204E and NJ204 referenced above^^ should read Koyo NUP204E and NUP204 I know that's what you meant, but you may want to correct it just to keep confusion down.

To clarify..RND is KOYO NUP204E

and EPS is NJ204

Porschetech3

That looks like a fresh installation !!. It still has assembly lube on the end of the flange !!

Sneaky Pete

Sure does. Notice the wear marks on the roller bearing and inside the housing...looks like it machined it's own clearances! Nicht gut!

Porschetech3

My failure analysis says it looks like a classic production/manufacturing stack-up issue. Looks like the axial clearance was not sufficient, hence the discoloration of the flange and roller bearings plus the signs of the outer race spinning in the IMS tube/housing.

For instance if the axial running clearance was spec'd at .008-.012 and 4 dimensions determine the total axial length, ie flange thickness, snout length, race width, thrust washer thickness, each dimension tolerances at +- .003(bearings and races are usually dead nuts on .0005) if you had flange +.003, snout +.003, thrust washer +.003, you could end up with a width that was +.009..and a axial clearance of .0000!!!

I think they should do like FSI does on their IMS Solution, check EACH assembly for radial clearance before boxing !! or that would leave it to the installer to pre-assemble it to check axial clearance before installation.

Sneaky Pete

Ok....so I see there is a patent. What exactly does it cover? The entire assembly or just a part of it?

Sneaky Pete

And by the way where is EPS with some answers?