Flat6 Innovations

The lab doing the test, means everything.

Mario1

I can't tell there's anything wrong by the sound or oil consumption. I just wish I knew where this metal and black derby found in the oil filter is coming from? And why high levels of aluminum and iron in oil test

Mario1

I've just bought XP9 form your place/ friends and I will get a free oil test. Thanks for that but I wish I could send them this oil sample now so we can get to the bottom of this, but I was not able to find that service on the RND site. I just want to know what's wrong with my engine.

Flat6 Innovations

The leading cause of this, no matter the oil thats used, has been aeration.

Mario1

So the problem is in the AOS or new deep sump?

Flat6 Innovations

Neither, BUT the AOS could be working over time to contend with the root of the aeration issue.

Maybe someone will figure it out. Lots of smart guys here!

AWDGuy

the black material could be coming from timing/IMS chain pads

Tbred911

Ok sorry I thought you were burning oil

Dt40 has no place on the track that's for sure - from others who have shared UOA with me and who have changed to a better oil suited for track their metals have really dropped

Even in really tight motors dt40 has shown horrible UOA after track use

You can try amsoil 10w40 AMO premium. Great stuff - give it a shot and do another UOA

Mario1

That problem existed when I bought the car 2 months ago. We found the same Debry in the oil filter and the aluminum and iron was high back then too.

Flat6 Innovations

We never developed DT40 for the track. Its a long life street oil with a superior additive package.

"Really Tight" engines are the WORST on the track, tight running clearances shear oil faster than anything. We don't build "tight engines" for the track.

The XP series of oils are what should be used on the track, and its been that way since the very beginning of the Driven/ Flat 6/ LN collaborative relationship.

That said, even when I have a customer screw up, (or not listen) and take one of my engines to the track on DT40, the results don't look anything like that Mario1 posted.

I see several issues with that oil, and I see the same things when oil is aerated, and film strength is compromised due to this. Aerated oil offers little to no boundary layer protection, which is what cams, lifters, timing chains/ sprockets and cylinders/ pistons need most to resist wear.

Mario1, send the UOA results to me, with a summary and Lake Speed and I will try to work on it together. Email to jake@rabyenginedevelopment.com

Mario1

Thanks. That XP9 is hard to get here in Canada. I'll look up the amsoil to see if I have more luck

Mario1

Thanks Jake, I will send it this afternoon. I have to take care of a promise I made to my son right now. Lol

Tbred911

That wasn't my definition of tight engine - I should have said engines that don't burn oil and are broken in - that is what I meant


Curious to see what the diagnosis is here given deep sump pan and airatiion are the issues...

Slakker

What else could cause aeration? Mario do you have any other bolt ons like an accusump, direct oil feed IMS or anything like that?

spruden

My somewhat educated guess is thermal degradation of the oil. This is the primary cause of aeration - and is leading to a majority of the out of whack levels in the UOA. Run a different oil that can take the heat, or better yet control oil temps and you'll solve the root cause.

Am I close?