Quix

Ok, Jake. After removing the cam cover for bank 2, he indy mechanic describes exactly the situation that you show in your photo, wear of the cam surfaces (?) that extends down through the outer hardened layer. He states that this has occurred in both cams on bank 2. His verdict is that this wear is likely present in bank 1 as well and translates to an engine that is beyond repair. It seems like an expensive repair regardless of whether possible or not. What's your opinion?
Could this wear be responsible for the metal fragments in the oil?

Flat6 Innovations

Its almost like I have seen this a few dozen times :-0

Once this wear starts it spreads globally across the engine. Check all surfaces. Assume nothing and quantify everything. The engine I have apart now lost rod bearings from the collateral damage extending from this primary failure, but we caught it in time and saved it.

It may be well beyond repair at his level, but at ours its just another day at the office.. Right now I consider your situation a best case scenario. This one is a walk in the park.

Flat6 Innovations

Btw- the metal in te oil started from the cam/ lifters. Read te story at the link I posted.

KrazyK

Jake, you said the engine suffered the above with NO symptoms? There was no excess VT noise or anything? Can you explain? What caused the camshaft and lifters to fail?

b8_rdc

Looks like neglect of oil change. I replaced the bank 2 lifters recently and at 65k they were shiny and new. However, one was stuck in 11mm position causing misfire at idle.

Flat6 Innovations

Poor materials and poor boundary layer protection from oils with long service intervals and less than adequate elemental composition. This is not new to us, this is quickly becoming he most common failure that we see. Luckily we have saved every engine to date that has landed here with this issue.

The engine that I linked had zero symptoms. Read the story.

Quix

So what does this walk entail? Complete teardown and rebuild? I assume that the repair you suggest will cost upwards of $5K....

What could cause this sort of wear? This car hasn't been tracked, stored or abused in any way. Can this really be a car that originally cost >$100K that only lasts 70K miles? That's a pretty poor ratio of $/miles, especially considering all the cash I've poured in for repairs and preventative maintenance, including the IMSB retrofit done 18 months ago.

KrazyK

Jake, I read the story but was blown away that such a valve train problem exhibited no symptoms. I agree with more frequent oil changes for sure. Funny how some refuse to believe this.

philooo

I wonder how much a fix like this costs....

Not even talking about the 'while you are in there' thing that will terribly hitch your wallet

philooo

could you post some pictures of what the indy found ? I would be curious to see how it looks like. When I look at Jake pics, aside of the rod bearing, I can't really see it. I mean I am a newbie and don't know what looks right or not

Quix

The indy took some pics and promised to send them along to me, but warned that they were pretty lousy cell phone pics. I'll post whatever I get when I get it.

I'll also add up all the $ I spent and make a list of the things I had fixed during the 2.5 years/27,000 miles I drove it...should make for good reading. As I mentioned, I always had the oil changed at 5K or less miles, with the exception of the last oil change where I went almost 7K. I kept it topped up always and used Mobil 1 as recommended.

Ahmet

Quix, the metallic noise you describe at start up sounds like a starter, unrelated to your issues at hand. I'd love to offer some help but w/the engine already apart at a shop (and without pictures) I don't want to speculate too much. Best of luck and please keep us posted.

On the failure analysis posted above (Jake), my educated guess would be that inadequate lubrication was the root cause, possibly due to low oil pressure or infrequent oil changes. In any case, I don't see how you can conclusively claim foreign material damage to the lower end bearings (and would welcome an explanation as I'm genuinely curious).

Side note, as noted above the SAI pumps can be rebuilt or replaced inexpensively. I don't think permanent removal makes much sense as it's a rather simple and lightweight system (which to my understanding of the design literature, the DME uses to cross check the readings from the 02 sensors to the MAF values) with no bearing on performance.

Flat6 Innovations

There are many contributing factors to this issue. The biggest is somewhat political and would only create controversy if I posted about it.

This really is just a repair at this point, not a "rebuild". It does make sense to change a few items while we are inside the engine, especially timing chains.

I'd like to see pics of what the Indy found as well.

Flat6 Innovations

Classic.

KrazyK

Jake, please explain. I come from the "old school" way of thinking and believe in 3000 miles / 3 month oil changes on performance engines.

Learned from Dad when I was a kid complaining about him making us grease HD construction equipment that cost much, much more than these Porsches. His favorite saying was "grease is cheap". It was my Grandfathers company at the time so we didnt understand until much older.

I think you would be nuts to go 10K miles or a year between oil changes in a high dollar performance engine. I wouldnt treat a lawn mower engine with such disdain.

If Porsche agrees to replace my engine, which is still low mileage, I might consider their recommendation.

I for one will not be offended and would like to hear your take on lubricant changes and oil types.