Originally Posted by 03996

So, I'm just beginning the discussions with Flat6 to replace said IMS bearing, and the aforementioned quote begs the question.......why, when going to the expense of tearing the car apart to fit new clutch and seal etc, would you NOT fit the new bearing? BTW, $400 invested in today's economy will be worth about, oh, $410 bucks in about a million years or so......ok, extreme but you get the point.

I'm still very undecided about this "fix" having heard everything from "if it aint broke don't fix it" to "they will all fail eventually due to inherent design problems with the engine" and "the IMS bearing should be considered a service replaceable part" etc etc etc.

I believe Flat6 are developing an absolute fix, my words not theirs but this likely wont be available until 2014 (awaiting patents) so perhaps good or better news down the road for these cars.

The real problem seems to be that it's almost impossible to detect imminent failure so you either have to get the mod done or just hope that the sun shines on the righteous, and you happen to be such a person!

Bottom line for me right now is that this is a crap shoot! Live long enough and we'll all die of wear and tear, and if we're abused along the way, we'll die earlier........this sems to be true for this bearing also. The "abuse" in this case, according to what I've read, seems to be driving the car too gently as apparently ZERO failures have occured on cars that are raced. I talked to a Porsche race mechanic at Road Atlanta a couple of months ago and he (two separate guys from two teams actually) also stated this.

My car has just about 80k miles on it and the clutch feels "odd" so I'm going to get that replaced, adn while I'm at it, the IMS bearing will go in. I just can't see replacing the clutch and NOT doing the bearing while in there! Flat6 will do the job for around $4k (on a C4) and you get a lot of other work/tests/evals included in the price. I'm lucky, they're in Ga and so am I.

Back to the original question.........for me, I'd pay more money for a car that had a documented professional job done on it. I know from my old car hobby that documented service cars fetch a lot more that those that don't have it. Also, old collectable cars that have had known problems fixed by fitting modern and recognized "fixes" command higher prices.........all of this assumes the prospective buyer knows about the problems in the first place, and that's where you educate these people by providing them links to the various media to help them understand.

I would be prepared to pay more for a 996 that had the IMS mod reather then one that did not, IF the current owner could provide documented evidence that the mod was done by a recognized authority and that NO engine damage had been reported prior to the mod.

Ya pay ya money and you take your choice!

Originally Posted by Porsche87

I would like to bring up something very basic about the IMS replacement that I think gets overlooked. Many feel that Jakes L&N retrofit bearing is a better design than the original, but I think what is more important is that you are taking out the old bearing that may be in the process of failing. Most bearings that come out are still in decent shape but the ones that are starting to go, like in another of Jakes recent posts, is almost definitely saving that driver an engine. So weather you believe in the newly designed bearing or not, you can't argue that its good to get a look at the old one and see if it's failing.

Originally Posted by groovzilla

i think i'd be a good candidate to explain selling a car with the LN engineered bearing having just been replaced. *it was also explained to me that the new LN engineering bearing has ceramic bearings and is a better bearing than the original.

like everyone else on this forum, i had concerns about the original bearing in my car and needed the flywheel replaced so i went ahead and did the bearing as both a safety measure and peace of mind for the next owner.

i'm aware this has been a debated topic regarding cost but the bearing replacement alone should not run more than $1700 ($600 bearing/$1000labor+tx.)

a fellow member "willowcreek" purchased my 1999 996 back in february. my car just had the bearing installed weeks before his purchase and it made the sale smooth and the owner confident that the bearing wouldn't be a concern.

one should not expect to recoupe any money back from the install HOWEVER i would never consider buying a car that hasn't had the bearing done OR i would subtract the total cost of bearing/labor from the asking price of any 996 i was to purchase again.

so if you assume the person buying your car is aware of the bearing issue,(seems a majority are these days) having the bearing replaced is only a plus and will certainly sell your car easier/less of a hassle than a car that has it's original bearing.

i also want to add that i really miss my 996 - i enjoy the 911sc i purchased but i appreciate the smoothness of the 996 tranny/brakes and overall ride/comfort features.

Originally Posted by machbx

Why? Bc I just bought the car and put all my money down and then in 48 hrs had to put 3500 into my car. I did NOT have. Moreover - It all depends on who you ask - Some people say that only 99 M96 have the problem then I hear that the 3.4 don't - I mean, on and on, till iI'm nauseated. Either way - I didn't have another 600 bux - AND the Porsche Tech said it wasn't any better than the one I have in there right now - A stock bearing w 37 k on the clock. Finish that off w the fact that I will do the oil change myself at 5k and only use good ole Mobil 1 - tho I am going to use LnEs screw on filter mod. It's funny the difference a couple months, makes - Marc - I cannot begin to imagine being a moderater on this forum. I'm tired of hearing about it wo any new insight beyond "Nobody knows" - there aren't a ton of 996 in St Louis - I am going to be on court tv w my car and will ask a California Porsche tech his thoughts. My opinion? Bc yes I do have one ... Don't buy a 996 "s" That s tells me someone is going to drive it like they stole it. I know I am a minority in thinking that actually driving it like it IS a $91k sportscar is "unheard of" I suppose I think if I drive it like those fast little old gals I saw driving Pcars on the Autobahn - that it will be fine - I do not keep the engine turning 3 grand and never shift up - nor do I lug my gears. My car is a 01 M96/04 - I feel like if there is a chance of the engine chewing itself up - it would be on an "s" - which are all 3.6. I have the most "dogged down" specs that I could find in a P-car. And it had one owner - who clearly didn't drive it. So it's either the best thing that has ever happened to me or it's the worst

Originally Posted by SacTownGuy

Of course if you get lucky and Porsche buys you a new motor then the value goes up after IMS failure, right!?

Originally Posted by 03996

Very sorry, didn't mean to offend in any way at all machbx. I'm new to this problem and as time goes by one would hope that somethin new comes to light. I guess perhaps not, other than "get it changed when you can." Like you my P dealership tells me not to worry about it, then you read/hear horror stories. Where does one go to get the real deal on this damned thing, other than from those who own and run them on a daily basis. As far as I'm concerned you guys, and gals, are the real deal........so I ask questions.

Once again, very sorry if I offended.

Originally Posted by Marc Gelefsky

ehhh.. yeah! thats the ticket!

Originally Posted by machbx

STG how you ended up like you did is amazing. That pic w yer baby sittin in oil. You must be a heck of a negotiater!

Originally Posted by jury_ca

My opinion is to stick with Porsche Approved parts. If the failures hit a certain statistical threshold, and there was a better designed bearing, Porsche would have superceded the part # with the new design. There are lots of examples of them doing this after taking careful engineering analysis and consideration of the problem. They have a multi million $ engineering budget and I'm not going to second guess what they decide is the right corrective action to take.

I'd rather take my chances with the factory bearing and consider failure to be a low probability event. No use worrying about low probabilty events that you don't really have control over.

Originally Posted by aviography

While I agree with the above theory in some cases, I also make informed decisions (for myself) when I see explainations being provided and supported with logical analysis.

Surely Porsche would have been taken to court quite some time ago if the frequency of failure is much higher, that has not turned out to be, but with cases of loss of lubricating grease and inability for the bearing to continuelly be lubricated, bearing wear will be inevitable and leading to eventual failures, the failur rate just hasn't hit a point to support a strong legal case, i.e. it is still economically more feasible for Porsche to replace engines under warranty, or slightly out of warranty to keep the customers happy, i.e. not creating a major stink, than to develope a real bulletproof fix.

My predication is that Porsche will not bother developing a bulletproof permanent fix since so far the rate of failure is likely considered "acceptable", especially given Porsche no longer uses IMS in their new cars, and the older 996 and 997 cars will all run out of any warranty coverage sooner than later.

I will have to post some pix taken last week at a local indy shop specializing in Porsches and other German cars, one failed IMS bearing welded part of itself to the IMS bearing flange, there is also overheating discolor as well, I also felt another IMS bearing and can clearly tell there has been noticeable wear even though there is no easily visible wear such as pitting, gouging or missing bearing race, there was a larger single row bearing removed from a 996 or a 997 but it felt fairly normal, the owner of this car decided to pro-actively replace it. They indicated having performed about 20 IMSB replacement over the last few years, with about 5 engine failures they feel could be attributed to IMS bearing, their words, not mine, so don't shoot the messenger!!