Questioning the reliability of the 996 (starting problems) + Fuel Vent System(PICS)
06-23-2010, 08:46 PM
#31
Three Wheelin'
So, I've owned the car for a couple months now and it has broken down not once but twice at the gas station. First time I had it flat bedded home. After some troubleshooting, i replaced the fuel pump, relay and fuel filter. She started right up.
Recently I've cleaned the MAF, Throttle body, reset the ECU, changed the oil, replaced the spark plugs, cleaned air filter, replaced fuel pump, replaced my IMS bearing, flushed tranny fluid, replaced carbon control valve.
Now, today the car started like any other day. I drove home for lunch and as i started it to leave it sort of struggled to reach operating idle. I thought nothing of it at the time. The the issue did stick in my mind prior to me reaching the gas station. After getting to the gas station, I filled the car up from just below a 1/4 tank. Went to start... Just cranking.... and cranking. No firing. Fail.
Out of every car I've owned, I never had two breakdowns. No matter what the mileage on the engine or age of the car.
I'm looking for some input on this particular problem. My thoughts are the ignition system since i just did decent maintenace to the fuel system. ALL input welcome. I need to be prepared so i can tackle this issue after work today in the gas station parking lot.
Recently I've cleaned the MAF, Throttle body, reset the ECU, changed the oil, replaced the spark plugs, cleaned air filter, replaced fuel pump, replaced my IMS bearing, flushed tranny fluid, replaced carbon control valve.
Now, today the car started like any other day. I drove home for lunch and as i started it to leave it sort of struggled to reach operating idle. I thought nothing of it at the time. The the issue did stick in my mind prior to me reaching the gas station. After getting to the gas station, I filled the car up from just below a 1/4 tank. Went to start... Just cranking.... and cranking. No firing. Fail.
Out of every car I've owned, I never had two breakdowns. No matter what the mileage on the engine or age of the car.
I'm looking for some input on this particular problem. My thoughts are the ignition system since i just did decent maintenace to the fuel system. ALL input welcome. I need to be prepared so i can tackle this issue after work today in the gas station parking lot.
For what it's worth, I drive my 996 more than both of my other cars (MB+BMW), and it has been one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned with the sole exception of the coil packs. I'm on my 3rd set (all warrantied)
Edit: I just saw your result (restart), there have been a few posts here about an issue with the venturis in the fuel tank causing a similar issue to the one you described, however it could very well be the level sender
06-23-2010, 08:49 PM
#32
3rd Gear
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i've been looking for 993's and 996's trying to evaluate the reliability and so forth. ...i've got hopes to make a purchase next year.
Anyway, yeah. I don't own either, but i thought i'd write that I had very very similar symptoms with my Audi A6. It would die at 1/2 a tank. ...Then I changed the fuel pump and the car worked perfectly except it would die at a 1/4 tank.
After about a year, a new problem had developed and the car wouldn't start after it was warmed up. It would crank and crank, unless I let it cool down an hour or so. This was very frustrating, since none of these issues caused CELs from what I remember. It was also annoying that I paid 3 local Audi mechanics to fix and they could either not diagnose or wanted to charge me a lot.
Ultimately, I gave the car to my brother in St. Louis (I'm in Phoenix), and dropped it off at his very trustworthy mechanic. He diagnosed the 1/2 and 1/4 tank issue to a faulty fuel sender. The starting issue was the camshaft position sensor. He also warned me that with Audi's, mechanics often don't fit the fuel pump tight and that'll cause similar symptoms.
I hope these suggestions can apply to your troubleshooting... Good luck. BTW, the A6 now runs perfectly with those two fixes, btw. It's been reliable for several months now.
Anyway, yeah. I don't own either, but i thought i'd write that I had very very similar symptoms with my Audi A6. It would die at 1/2 a tank. ...Then I changed the fuel pump and the car worked perfectly except it would die at a 1/4 tank.
After about a year, a new problem had developed and the car wouldn't start after it was warmed up. It would crank and crank, unless I let it cool down an hour or so. This was very frustrating, since none of these issues caused CELs from what I remember. It was also annoying that I paid 3 local Audi mechanics to fix and they could either not diagnose or wanted to charge me a lot.
Ultimately, I gave the car to my brother in St. Louis (I'm in Phoenix), and dropped it off at his very trustworthy mechanic. He diagnosed the 1/2 and 1/4 tank issue to a faulty fuel sender. The starting issue was the camshaft position sensor. He also warned me that with Audi's, mechanics often don't fit the fuel pump tight and that'll cause similar symptoms.
I hope these suggestions can apply to your troubleshooting... Good luck. BTW, the A6 now runs perfectly with those two fixes, btw. It's been reliable for several months now.
06-23-2010, 08:51 PM
#33
Sorry to hear about your troubles but since nobody has asked, I will.....
Did you get a thorough PPI on this car that you have only have a couple months???
Have you taken to an indy or the dealer to have the problem identified or are you just throwing money and parts at it hoping it will fix itself??? You could save yourself a lot of grief, frustration, and $$$.
Did you get a thorough PPI on this car that you have only have a couple months???
Have you taken to an indy or the dealer to have the problem identified or are you just throwing money and parts at it hoping it will fix itself??? You could save yourself a lot of grief, frustration, and $$$.
First off, I will never bring my car to a dealer for anything (saves $$$). And, its not like I don't have a clue how a car works and im not just "throwing" parts at it. Initially I said I was shooting in the dark to begin with since I was not familiar with the Porsche during my first break down.
Now, frustration on the other hand will never be eliminated because all mechanics get frustrated no matter what the job is. Its very easy to just hand a problem over to the Porsche dealer and it is miraculously fixed when you pick it up. But, I not going to lie that i was not terribly frustrated today at the gas pump.
06-23-2010, 08:55 PM
#34
There are only 3 variables, air, fuel, spark. If you've tried all 3 with no results, and aren't too attached, you may have a problem car, and you may want to cut your losses. Usually these cars will tell you what's wrong at the OBD port if it's a sensor or a plug or a coil issue.
For what it's worth, I drive my 996 more than both of my other cars (MB+BMW), and it has been one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned with the sole exception of the coil packs. I'm on my 3rd set (all warrantied)
Edit: I just saw your result (restart), there have been a few posts here about an issue with the venturis in the fuel tank causing a similar issue to the one you described, however it could very well be the level sender
For what it's worth, I drive my 996 more than both of my other cars (MB+BMW), and it has been one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned with the sole exception of the coil packs. I'm on my 3rd set (all warrantied)
Edit: I just saw your result (restart), there have been a few posts here about an issue with the venturis in the fuel tank causing a similar issue to the one you described, however it could very well be the level sender
06-23-2010, 08:57 PM
#35
i've been looking for 993's and 996's trying to evaluate the reliability and so forth. ...i've got hopes to make a purchase next year.
Anyway, yeah. I don't own either, but i thought i'd write that I had very very similar symptoms with my Audi A6. It would die at 1/2 a tank. ...Then I changed the fuel pump and the car worked perfectly except it would die at a 1/4 tank.
After about a year, a new problem had developed and the car wouldn't start after it was warmed up. It would crank and crank, unless I let it cool down an hour or so. This was very frustrating, since none of these issues caused CELs from what I remember. It was also annoying that I paid 3 local Audi mechanics to fix and they could either not diagnose or wanted to charge me a lot.
Ultimately, I gave the car to my brother in St. Louis (I'm in Phoenix), and dropped it off at his very trustworthy mechanic. He diagnosed the 1/2 and 1/4 tank issue to a faulty fuel sender. The starting issue was the camshaft position sensor. He also warned me that with Audi's, mechanics often don't fit the fuel pump tight and that'll cause similar symptoms.
I hope these suggestions can apply to your troubleshooting... Good luck. BTW, the A6 now runs perfectly with those two fixes, btw. It's been reliable for several months now.
Anyway, yeah. I don't own either, but i thought i'd write that I had very very similar symptoms with my Audi A6. It would die at 1/2 a tank. ...Then I changed the fuel pump and the car worked perfectly except it would die at a 1/4 tank.
After about a year, a new problem had developed and the car wouldn't start after it was warmed up. It would crank and crank, unless I let it cool down an hour or so. This was very frustrating, since none of these issues caused CELs from what I remember. It was also annoying that I paid 3 local Audi mechanics to fix and they could either not diagnose or wanted to charge me a lot.
Ultimately, I gave the car to my brother in St. Louis (I'm in Phoenix), and dropped it off at his very trustworthy mechanic. He diagnosed the 1/2 and 1/4 tank issue to a faulty fuel sender. The starting issue was the camshaft position sensor. He also warned me that with Audi's, mechanics often don't fit the fuel pump tight and that'll cause similar symptoms.
I hope these suggestions can apply to your troubleshooting... Good luck. BTW, the A6 now runs perfectly with those two fixes, btw. It's been reliable for several months now.
06-23-2010, 09:11 PM
#37
Three Wheelin'
I don't have the diagram, but I recommend visiting renntech and searching the 996 sections. I do have a page from the 996 workshop manual you may find interesting in the event that you did not perform the calibration procedure.
06-23-2010, 10:51 PM
#39
Nordschleife Master
How does this comment help fix the problem anyway?
First off, I will never bring my car to a dealer for anything (saves $$$). And, its not like I don't have a clue how a car works and im not just "throwing" parts at it. Initially I said I was shooting in the dark to begin with since I was not familiar with the Porsche during my first break down.
Now, frustration on the other hand will never be eliminated because all mechanics get frustrated no matter what the job is. Its very easy to just hand a problem over to the Porsche dealer and it is miraculously fixed when you pick it up. But, I not going to lie that i was not terribly frustrated today at the gas pump.
First off, I will never bring my car to a dealer for anything (saves $$$). And, its not like I don't have a clue how a car works and im not just "throwing" parts at it. Initially I said I was shooting in the dark to begin with since I was not familiar with the Porsche during my first break down.
Now, frustration on the other hand will never be eliminated because all mechanics get frustrated no matter what the job is. Its very easy to just hand a problem over to the Porsche dealer and it is miraculously fixed when you pick it up. But, I not going to lie that i was not terribly frustrated today at the gas pump.
Sounds like you are missing the point of my question and totally skirted the answer. You really think you are saving money??? Have fun.
06-23-2010, 11:41 PM
#40
Nordschleife Master
intolerance of ignorance. How are you supposed to get help when you don't seem to get it? The help is here but shooting in the dark is a waste.
So, I'll ask again. Why did you not answer my questions?
So, I'll ask again. Why did you not answer my questions?
06-24-2010, 01:04 AM
#42
Drifting
Three things needed to run, compression, spark, fuel. We know you have compression, you need to check for spark and fuel when it won't start. Crank the motor half a dozen times for 5 seconds, rest for 10, etc. Now sniff the tail pipes, smell gas? If so, you are getting fuel, if not dig deeper and find a way to verify fuel is entering the combustion chambers.
If you are getting fuel, verify that you are getting spark. This could be difficult to do in a conventional manner. Pull a coil and place a spare plug on the high tension lead, ground the threaded portion and have someone crank the motor. Look for a spark.
I'm thinking this will get you going in the right direction.
Good luck
If you are getting fuel, verify that you are getting spark. This could be difficult to do in a conventional manner. Pull a coil and place a spare plug on the high tension lead, ground the threaded portion and have someone crank the motor. Look for a spark.
I'm thinking this will get you going in the right direction.
Good luck
06-24-2010, 07:40 AM
#43
Nordschleife Master
Personally, if I just bought a car and a couple months later I was having problems I would talk to the selling dealer or the place that did the PPI and see how it was missed.
You seem to have a disdain for shops. Why?
As far as shooting in the dark and questioning the reliability on these cars you did........
replaced the fuel pump, relay and fuel filter, cleaned the MAF, Throttle body, reset the ECU, changed the oil, replaced the spark plugs, cleaned air filter, replaced fuel pump, replaced my IMS bearing, flushed tranny fluid, replaced carbon control valve.
You tell me, but from what I can tell, that is throwing everything at a problem and hoping something sticks.
Are the shops in your area that incompetent that they could have no looked at your call and diagnosed this problem?
06-24-2010, 08:49 AM
#44
Instructor
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I use to have the exact same problem a couple a years ago with my 964 1991.
I was in Florida for a 2 weeks vacation so without any sign one day the engine crank and crank again with no success.....
I waited for half and hour and the engine start with no problem...
Same thing happened 3 or 4 days later
I brought the car to the Porsche dealer and they replaced the gas pump relay...$100.00
That was a recurent problem with Porsche car at that time.
Your problem is most probably the same
Good luck
Robert
I was in Florida for a 2 weeks vacation so without any sign one day the engine crank and crank again with no success.....
I waited for half and hour and the engine start with no problem...
Same thing happened 3 or 4 days later
I brought the car to the Porsche dealer and they replaced the gas pump relay...$100.00
That was a recurent problem with Porsche car at that time.
Your problem is most probably the same
Good luck
Robert
06-24-2010, 08:54 AM
#45
Nordschleife Master
I use to have the exact same problem a couple a years ago with my 964 1991.
I was in Florida for a 2 weeks vacation so without any sign one day the engine crank and crank again with no success.....
I waited for half and hour and the engine start with no problem...
Same thing happened 3 or 4 days later
I brought the car to the Porsche dealer and they replaced the gas pump relay...$100.00
That was a recurent problem with Porsche car at that time.
Your problem is most probably the same
Good luck
Robert
I was in Florida for a 2 weeks vacation so without any sign one day the engine crank and crank again with no success.....
I waited for half and hour and the engine start with no problem...
Same thing happened 3 or 4 days later
I brought the car to the Porsche dealer and they replaced the gas pump relay...$100.00
That was a recurent problem with Porsche car at that time.
Your problem is most probably the same
Good luck
Robert
Bingo. That's the point I was after with the OP.
We'd all love to see him get his issue resolved but it starts with taking the correct approach.