Qustion on Camshaft allocation/tool 9612
06-24-2009, 10:21 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Qustion on Camshaft allocation/tool 9612
I have a question about the use/purpose of the Porsche Cam alignment tool 9612 ( and the equivalent tools available from Baum Tools, ZDmax and Pelican). The descriptions say that the tools is used to secure the intake and exhaust cams in relation to each other when setting the cam timing. However, the relative position of the cams to each other seems to be controlled by the number of chains links on the sprockets and the cam tensioner/solenoid. You cannot change the relative position of the cams to each other once the chain is set on the sprocket. It seems that the real purpose of this tool is to set the position of the cams to the sprocket on the intermediate shaft chain, and thus the position of the cams relative to the crankshaft. Is this really the case?
This comes up for me on my project repairing the intermix problem on my car. For those of you who have been following my on-going project, after having the cracked head fix and reinstalling it, the car started up but blew an expansion plug out of the end of the 1-6 intake cam. The cams are actually hollow and carry pressurized oil to the journals on the cams. Each end of the cams has an expansion plug, and on occasion these can blow out, which can lead to a complete loss of oil quite quickly. In any case I caught mine if a few seconds and shut the engine down. It is not advisable to reuse the old expansion plug as it has already been deformed and could blow out again. Porsche does not sell a replacement plug ( they will only provide a new cam for $800+ as opposed to the plug which costs less than a dollar) and the plugs available in the US are the right diameter, but are two deep to go into the cam far enough to hold. I searched and searched but could not find a properly sized plug. So I found a used set of cams. When I removed the cams I marked the position of the sprocket from the IMS chain on the exhaust cam flange so that I could put everything back in the exact same position. However when removing the intake cam from the cam assembly, the chain came off both cams, so I had to reinstall the chain based on the colored links and marks on the cam. I did not think this would effect the marks on the exhaust cam flange and the IMS chain sprocket, but now when the engine is set at TDC and the marks are aligned, the cam groove is not straight up and down. So I want to make sure that the cams are set correctly relative to the crankshaft.
I have devised another way to rotate the cams to set the position, but I am perplexed that the sprocket and flange don’t seem to line up the way they did before. Any thoughts on this?
This comes up for me on my project repairing the intermix problem on my car. For those of you who have been following my on-going project, after having the cracked head fix and reinstalling it, the car started up but blew an expansion plug out of the end of the 1-6 intake cam. The cams are actually hollow and carry pressurized oil to the journals on the cams. Each end of the cams has an expansion plug, and on occasion these can blow out, which can lead to a complete loss of oil quite quickly. In any case I caught mine if a few seconds and shut the engine down. It is not advisable to reuse the old expansion plug as it has already been deformed and could blow out again. Porsche does not sell a replacement plug ( they will only provide a new cam for $800+ as opposed to the plug which costs less than a dollar) and the plugs available in the US are the right diameter, but are two deep to go into the cam far enough to hold. I searched and searched but could not find a properly sized plug. So I found a used set of cams. When I removed the cams I marked the position of the sprocket from the IMS chain on the exhaust cam flange so that I could put everything back in the exact same position. However when removing the intake cam from the cam assembly, the chain came off both cams, so I had to reinstall the chain based on the colored links and marks on the cam. I did not think this would effect the marks on the exhaust cam flange and the IMS chain sprocket, but now when the engine is set at TDC and the marks are aligned, the cam groove is not straight up and down. So I want to make sure that the cams are set correctly relative to the crankshaft.
I have devised another way to rotate the cams to set the position, but I am perplexed that the sprocket and flange don’t seem to line up the way they did before. Any thoughts on this?
06-24-2009, 11:09 PM
#2
Race Director
No time to type in but send me via email your fax number and I'll...
I have a question about the use/purpose of the Porsche Cam alignment tool 9612 ( and the equivalent tools available from Baum Tools, ZDmax and Pelican). The descriptions say that the tools is used to secure the intake and exhaust cams in relation to each other when setting the cam timing. However, the relative position of the cams to each other seems to be controlled by the number of chains links on the sprockets and the cam tensioner/solenoid. You cannot change the relative position of the cams to each other once the chain is set on the sprocket. It seems that the real purpose of this tool is to set the position of the cams to the sprocket on the intermediate shaft chain, and thus the position of the cams relative to the crankshaft. Is this really the case?
This comes up for me on my project repairing the intermix problem on my car. For those of you who have been following my on-going project, after having the cracked head fix and reinstalling it, the car started up but blew an expansion plug out of the end of the 1-6 intake cam. The cams are actually hollow and carry pressurized oil to the journals on the cams. Each end of the cams has an expansion plug, and on occasion these can blow out, which can lead to a complete loss of oil quite quickly. In any case I caught mine if a few seconds and shut the engine down. It is not advisable to reuse the old expansion plug as it has already been deformed and could blow out again. Porsche does not sell a replacement plug ( they will only provide a new cam for $800+ as opposed to the plug which costs less than a dollar) and the plugs available in the US are the right diameter, but are two deep to go into the cam far enough to hold. I searched and searched but could not find a properly sized plug. So I found a used set of cams. When I removed the cams I marked the position of the sprocket from the IMS chain on the exhaust cam flange so that I could put everything back in the exact same position. However when removing the intake cam from the cam assembly, the chain came off both cams, so I had to reinstall the chain based on the colored links and marks on the cam. I did not think this would effect the marks on the exhaust cam flange and the IMS chain sprocket, but now when the engine is set at TDC and the marks are aligned, the cam groove is not straight up and down. So I want to make sure that the cams are set correctly relative to the crankshaft.
I have devised another way to rotate the cams to set the position, but I am perplexed that the sprocket and flange don’t seem to line up the way they did before. Any thoughts on this?
This comes up for me on my project repairing the intermix problem on my car. For those of you who have been following my on-going project, after having the cracked head fix and reinstalling it, the car started up but blew an expansion plug out of the end of the 1-6 intake cam. The cams are actually hollow and carry pressurized oil to the journals on the cams. Each end of the cams has an expansion plug, and on occasion these can blow out, which can lead to a complete loss of oil quite quickly. In any case I caught mine if a few seconds and shut the engine down. It is not advisable to reuse the old expansion plug as it has already been deformed and could blow out again. Porsche does not sell a replacement plug ( they will only provide a new cam for $800+ as opposed to the plug which costs less than a dollar) and the plugs available in the US are the right diameter, but are two deep to go into the cam far enough to hold. I searched and searched but could not find a properly sized plug. So I found a used set of cams. When I removed the cams I marked the position of the sprocket from the IMS chain on the exhaust cam flange so that I could put everything back in the exact same position. However when removing the intake cam from the cam assembly, the chain came off both cams, so I had to reinstall the chain based on the colored links and marks on the cam. I did not think this would effect the marks on the exhaust cam flange and the IMS chain sprocket, but now when the engine is set at TDC and the marks are aligned, the cam groove is not straight up and down. So I want to make sure that the cams are set correctly relative to the crankshaft.
I have devised another way to rotate the cams to set the position, but I am perplexed that the sprocket and flange don’t seem to line up the way they did before. Any thoughts on this?
Or send me a mailing address and I'll mail copies to you.
Sincerely,
Macster.
06-25-2009, 01:47 AM
#3
Race Car
Ive seen that tool in the manual and thought they only keep the cams indexed to each other, not the IMS. I was just making simply an assumption though.
Ask 99firehawk, I remember him saying he installed FVD cams I believe. He should know for sure.
Ask 99firehawk, I remember him saying he installed FVD cams I believe. He should know for sure.
06-25-2009, 09:03 AM
#4
Drifting
Thread Starter
Macster - thanks for your offer, I have the manuals and am just trying to confirm the exact settings. It just seems strange that the procedure in the manual results in a slightly different setting than the marks I made prior to disassembly.
Tippy - 99firehawk is great. I was hoping he might see this thread. Again however, the timing between the cams can't really vary much at all. It is controlled by the number of chain links (7) between the to cam sprockets, and the tensioner/solenoid. You can't stretch the chain, the solenoid can be compressed slightly. The Porsche tool has a center pivoting section but I am not sure if if rotates the exhaust cam when you rotate it. The aftermarket tool seems to just hold the two cams in place, and allows you to make slight adjustments to the exhuast cam relative to the IMS sprocket, which would allow it to be "timed" to the crankshaft.
Tippy - 99firehawk is great. I was hoping he might see this thread. Again however, the timing between the cams can't really vary much at all. It is controlled by the number of chain links (7) between the to cam sprockets, and the tensioner/solenoid. You can't stretch the chain, the solenoid can be compressed slightly. The Porsche tool has a center pivoting section but I am not sure if if rotates the exhaust cam when you rotate it. The aftermarket tool seems to just hold the two cams in place, and allows you to make slight adjustments to the exhuast cam relative to the IMS sprocket, which would allow it to be "timed" to the crankshaft.
06-25-2009, 10:34 AM
#5
Burning Brakes
The allocation (lobe separation) of the intake/ exhaust cams is set by the chains and the amount of teeth between the dots. For your engine their should be two discolored chain links that are 7 teeth apart that will align with these dots.
After the cams are allocated to each other the camshaft alignment tool then indexes the exhaust cam to the crankshaft after the crank is locked into position.
I am in the process of writing some instructions for the folks at Baum for their tool kits as I have assisted them with the fine tuning of these. I also plan to do an instructional DVD on this soon.
After the cams are allocated to each other the camshaft alignment tool then indexes the exhaust cam to the crankshaft after the crank is locked into position.
I am in the process of writing some instructions for the folks at Baum for their tool kits as I have assisted them with the fine tuning of these. I also plan to do an instructional DVD on this soon.
06-25-2009, 02:40 PM
#6
Race Car
The cam timing interest me on the M96 since it is so far different than previous air-cooled motors.
06-25-2009, 03:51 PM
#7
Race Director
On another board I got involved with someone replacing...
Macster - thanks for your offer, I have the manuals and am just trying to confirm the exact settings. It just seems strange that the procedure in the manual results in a slightly different setting than the marks I made prior to disassembly.
Tippy - 99firehawk is great. I was hoping he might see this thread. Again however, the timing between the cams can't really vary much at all. It is controlled by the number of chain links (7) between the to cam sprockets, and the tensioner/solenoid. You can't stretch the chain, the solenoid can be compressed slightly. The Porsche tool has a center pivoting section but I am not sure if if rotates the exhaust cam when you rotate it. The aftermarket tool seems to just hold the two cams in place, and allows you to make slight adjustments to the exhuast cam relative to the IMS sprocket, which would allow it to be "timed" to the crankshaft.
Tippy - 99firehawk is great. I was hoping he might see this thread. Again however, the timing between the cams can't really vary much at all. It is controlled by the number of chain links (7) between the to cam sprockets, and the tensioner/solenoid. You can't stretch the chain, the solenoid can be compressed slightly. The Porsche tool has a center pivoting section but I am not sure if if rotates the exhaust cam when you rotate it. The aftermarket tool seems to just hold the two cams in place, and allows you to make slight adjustments to the exhuast cam relative to the IMS sprocket, which would allow it to be "timed" to the crankshaft.
He had no manual so I typed in instructions from manual and emailed them to him. IIRC and this for the Boxster, the instructions and drawings didn't quite jive. This person took his time and reasoned the situation out and got everything back together just fine.
My point is that if you have some confusion you are not alone. I've never done a Boxster engine but other engines I've always checked valve timing with a degree wheel, pointer, and dial indicator to ensure the timing marks, reference marks, etc, are correct as is my assembly.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Trending Topics
06-25-2009, 04:30 PM
#8
Race Car
My point is that if you have some confusion you are not alone. I've never done a Boxster engine but other engines I've always checked valve timing with a degree wheel, pointer, and dial indicator to ensure the timing marks, reference marks, etc, are correct as is my assembly.
Sincerely,
Macster.
Sincerely,
Macster.
06-25-2009, 05:22 PM
#9
Burning Brakes
This can be done with a degree wheel as well, but its not easy because the proper indicated specs are not available..
I verify the settings after the tool is used with the dial indicator.
I verify the settings after the tool is used with the dial indicator.
06-25-2009, 06:21 PM
#11
Drifting
Thread Starter
There are also three "pretensioners" that are used in rebuilding engines and installing heads. the screw in inplace of the three tensioners(part number 9599), one for the guide rails to each cam bank, and one for the guide rail on the IMs/Crack chain. How critical are these? The go in and then adjust to set a certain amount of tension on each chain. It seems that completely removing the tensioner barely moves the position of the sprocket, so I am unsure how much difference there is between the standard tensioner and the "pretensiner tool." They are vailable from Sunset for $402.76, but are in Germany and so take a month to get.
04-19-2011, 07:05 PM
#13
Three Wheelin'
Doug (or others who have done this) did you put it back together using porsche special pretensioner tool 9599?
Or did you just end up using your chain tensioners instead? TIA.
EDIT: Found the answer here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-on-996-a.html
Or did you just end up using your chain tensioners instead? TIA.
EDIT: Found the answer here: https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-on-996-a.html
Last edited by logray; 05-17-2011 at 06:22 PM.
