Experience w/ core charge and Porsche?
06-23-2009, 01:32 PM
#16
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I believe the prices have increased steadily this last year. Dharn55 quoted the 3.4 at 11,010 last year, maybe that individual got a great deal!
06-23-2009, 02:51 PM
#17
Drifting
Last fall whenIhad my intermix and was considering a reman engine.I checked pricing at my local dealer and at Sunset and Suncoast. The local dealerf was full list+. Sunset and Suncoast were the same, 3.4 $11,010 + core, 3.6 $8,400 + core and 3.6 X51 $9,600. I know that the prices have gone up since then, especially for the 3.4. Sunset said that they had to have an apples to apples core exchange, i.e. a 3..4 for a 3.4. Suncoast said they could do an apples oranges core, i.e. 3.4 for 3.6 and just charge the difference in core charge, which was only a couple of hundred dollars.
I think that a 3..4 is abouut $14,000 now, but I haven't checked in several months. Obviously Porsche is putting the screws to 3.4 owners. 2 years ago a 3.4 was under $8,000. At the pricesthat Porsche is getting for a 3.4 reman Jake Raby'srebuilds, which I think are $15,000 plus seem pretty attractive. He does the Nikkies liners, upgrades pistons and rods, bearings, IMS shaft and alot of other things. So if I was going for a new/reman engine I think I would try to stretch for Jake's rebuild.
I think that a 3..4 is abouut $14,000 now, but I haven't checked in several months. Obviously Porsche is putting the screws to 3.4 owners. 2 years ago a 3.4 was under $8,000. At the pricesthat Porsche is getting for a 3.4 reman Jake Raby'srebuilds, which I think are $15,000 plus seem pretty attractive. He does the Nikkies liners, upgrades pistons and rods, bearings, IMS shaft and alot of other things. So if I was going for a new/reman engine I think I would try to stretch for Jake's rebuild.
06-23-2009, 03:20 PM
#18
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Yeah the prices have gone up then. A 3.4 from Jim Ellis (local) or suncoast is now 16,500.
I think Jake's price is right but he couldnt have my car back together till October and given that its my daily driver, I couldnt swing it.
I think Jake's price is right but he couldnt have my car back together till October and given that its my daily driver, I couldnt swing it.
06-24-2009, 01:09 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
Last week I had a Porsche reman engine fail on my dyno. It had 2 hours of run time on it..
I received an email on Sundaty from a 996 Owner that got 100 miles on his new engine before it broke an intake cam.
The results are speaking for themselves. All I state are the facts, facts that I have documeted.
I received an email on Sundaty from a 996 Owner that got 100 miles on his new engine before it broke an intake cam.
The results are speaking for themselves. All I state are the facts, facts that I have documeted.
06-24-2009, 07:06 AM
#21
Drifting
Last week I had a Porsche reman engine fail on my dyno. It had 2 hours of run time on it..
I received an email on Sundaty from a 996 Owner that got 100 miles on his new engine before it broke an intake cam.
The results are speaking for themselves. All I state are the facts, facts that I have documeted.
I received an email on Sundaty from a 996 Owner that got 100 miles on his new engine before it broke an intake cam.
The results are speaking for themselves. All I state are the facts, facts that I have documeted.
Question: does Porsche perform the reman or is that process outsourced??? Sorry if this is a universally known bit of info.
06-24-2009, 02:21 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
Question: does Porsche perform the reman or is that process outsourced??? Sorry if this is a universally known bit of info.
You'd think at some point someone in one of these factories, or someone that had worked there would pop up online but thats not the case.
The design of the M96 is great.. The downfall is the materials and "budget" the engine was subjecvt to.. EVERYTHING we have resolved with the M96 was done through better materials and some old fashioned common sense. Its apparent that the Engineers had their hands tied by the Accounting department.
And asking Mitsubishi for assistance on "how to make money" did nothing except complicate things....
06-25-2009, 02:37 AM
#23
Burning Brakes
VERY good question. One that I have wondered for a good while but never had a clarification on.
You'd think at some point someone in one of these factories, or someone that had worked there would pop up online but thats not the case.
The design of the M96 is great.. The downfall is the materials and "budget" the engine was subjecvt to.. EVERYTHING we have resolved with the M96 was done through better materials and some old fashioned common sense. Its apparent that the Engineers had their hands tied by the Accounting department.
And asking Mitsubishi for assistance on "how to make money" did nothing except complicate things....
You'd think at some point someone in one of these factories, or someone that had worked there would pop up online but thats not the case.
The design of the M96 is great.. The downfall is the materials and "budget" the engine was subjecvt to.. EVERYTHING we have resolved with the M96 was done through better materials and some old fashioned common sense. Its apparent that the Engineers had their hands tied by the Accounting department.
And asking Mitsubishi for assistance on "how to make money" did nothing except complicate things....
09-07-2009, 12:37 PM
#28
Rennlist Member
If a reman fails with 200 miles on the clock, wouldn't it be covered by warranty and be replaced no charge?
Crated GT3 engines are over $20K I believe. This not including new tranny, wiring harness, DME. A redesigned M97 built after 06 would probably be a cheaper option although it involves new DME and perhaps new wiring..
Crated GT3 engines are over $20K I believe. This not including new tranny, wiring harness, DME. A redesigned M97 built after 06 would probably be a cheaper option although it involves new DME and perhaps new wiring..
09-07-2009, 01:24 PM
#29
First, you can find better deals if you know where to look. Call Oklahoma Foreign for one. They had a 17K mile from a 3.6l out of an 03 that they were going to sell for $7500 with shipping and including shipping for the core return.
I don't know if they are still doing it, but Porsche had a 20% service discount coupon (10% from the dealer and 10% form PCNA). The coupon could be downloaded on the PCNA website. You can also negotiate with your service and parts departments. An engine replacement is not an everyday thing and with the heavy margin on these, there is plenty of room to negotiate. I paid less for my X51 that what Dharn55 posted above, despite the price increase. Yes the engines did go up, but you can always work a deal. The replacement engines have a 2 year unlimited mileage engine. If it blows up in a 23 months, you get a new engine...period. The new and reman engines both have all the latest upgrades, including the larger IMS bearing. Believe it or not, from throttle body to the exhaust port on the head, the 996 3.6l is identical to the 997 3.6l. Getting a new motor means getting improvements that are later than an 05' 997.
An X51 also doesn't cost much more than a regular 3.6l. How about only $200 more. It needs about $100 in additional small parts to go into a 02' to 05' 996 6-speed. Sorry automatic owners, they don't have an X51 for the automatic. This is due to the additional vacuum the X51 requires, there isn't enough vacuum off an X51 to get the tranmission to shift. There are no harness changes. Your service dapartment can do the ECU reflash (remember there is a Techequip X51 upgrade that includes the reflash). This should be your first thought if you need an engine for an 02' to 05' 996 3.6l 6-sp.
As far as Flat 6 Innovations go, it depends on what is wrong with your engine and what you are looking at doing with it. As long as the heads don't need to be repaired and there is no damage to the short block, they can do a rebuild with the IMS upgrade for about $7K. If you have internal damage, figure $13k as a starting point. I had a broken timing chain which we knew pistons hit valves when it happened (metal in the oil filter). I talked to flat 6 and they could not come close to the deal I got on an X51. The real reason to go to Flat 6 is if you are looking for an upgrade in power. They can up the displacement, install bigger cams and ported heads to get you a lot closer to GT3 power. They even do low compression motors for turbo conversions.
As far as the GT3 swapover goes, you better have deep pockets. First, if you can find a used 996 GT3 engine, it is going to run $20K+. A new one is over $30K. You have wiring harness and electronic changes. Ruf for one does these conversions:
http://www.rufautocentre.com/conversions/GT3.asp
They have to build a custom harness to make it work. You will also need a GT3 tranmission as the M96 box from a Carrera will not bolt up to a GT1 style block. A much cheaper option would be to install a junkyard engine, sell the car and buy a GT3. If you are even putting a notion of upgrading to a GT3 engine, call Flat 6 first.
From the comment about the reman engine with 200 miles on the dyno, my first comment is what are you doing dynoing it with only 200 miles on it? I was told the new engines need at least 1000 miles running no higher than 5500 rpms for breakin. I am not surprised it broke. The bearing tolerances were so tight it probably could not take the stress. From experience with my X51, I can say that even 1500 miles will not result in a fully broken in engine. It looks like they need 2500 to 3500 miles to be fully broken in.
I don't know if they are still doing it, but Porsche had a 20% service discount coupon (10% from the dealer and 10% form PCNA). The coupon could be downloaded on the PCNA website. You can also negotiate with your service and parts departments. An engine replacement is not an everyday thing and with the heavy margin on these, there is plenty of room to negotiate. I paid less for my X51 that what Dharn55 posted above, despite the price increase. Yes the engines did go up, but you can always work a deal. The replacement engines have a 2 year unlimited mileage engine. If it blows up in a 23 months, you get a new engine...period. The new and reman engines both have all the latest upgrades, including the larger IMS bearing. Believe it or not, from throttle body to the exhaust port on the head, the 996 3.6l is identical to the 997 3.6l. Getting a new motor means getting improvements that are later than an 05' 997.
An X51 also doesn't cost much more than a regular 3.6l. How about only $200 more. It needs about $100 in additional small parts to go into a 02' to 05' 996 6-speed. Sorry automatic owners, they don't have an X51 for the automatic. This is due to the additional vacuum the X51 requires, there isn't enough vacuum off an X51 to get the tranmission to shift. There are no harness changes. Your service dapartment can do the ECU reflash (remember there is a Techequip X51 upgrade that includes the reflash). This should be your first thought if you need an engine for an 02' to 05' 996 3.6l 6-sp.
As far as Flat 6 Innovations go, it depends on what is wrong with your engine and what you are looking at doing with it. As long as the heads don't need to be repaired and there is no damage to the short block, they can do a rebuild with the IMS upgrade for about $7K. If you have internal damage, figure $13k as a starting point. I had a broken timing chain which we knew pistons hit valves when it happened (metal in the oil filter). I talked to flat 6 and they could not come close to the deal I got on an X51. The real reason to go to Flat 6 is if you are looking for an upgrade in power. They can up the displacement, install bigger cams and ported heads to get you a lot closer to GT3 power. They even do low compression motors for turbo conversions.
As far as the GT3 swapover goes, you better have deep pockets. First, if you can find a used 996 GT3 engine, it is going to run $20K+. A new one is over $30K. You have wiring harness and electronic changes. Ruf for one does these conversions:
http://www.rufautocentre.com/conversions/GT3.asp
They have to build a custom harness to make it work. You will also need a GT3 tranmission as the M96 box from a Carrera will not bolt up to a GT1 style block. A much cheaper option would be to install a junkyard engine, sell the car and buy a GT3. If you are even putting a notion of upgrading to a GT3 engine, call Flat 6 first.
From the comment about the reman engine with 200 miles on the dyno, my first comment is what are you doing dynoing it with only 200 miles on it? I was told the new engines need at least 1000 miles running no higher than 5500 rpms for breakin. I am not surprised it broke. The bearing tolerances were so tight it probably could not take the stress. From experience with my X51, I can say that even 1500 miles will not result in a fully broken in engine. It looks like they need 2500 to 3500 miles to be fully broken in.
Last edited by 10 GT3; 09-07-2009 at 05:24 PM.