Talk me out of it.. Considering trade for M3
09-05-2008, 09:30 AM
#46
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Funny you suggested that, I found an 01 M5 that I plan to test out this weekend. The V8 is what made me start looking at those. I want to compare the M5 to the M3 and see which I prefer.
09-05-2008, 03:14 PM
#47
Race Director
Please show me the e46 that looks better than these MK 1's, because I have not yet seen it.
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...highlight=Taco
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...highlight=Taco
I'd take a competition package E46 M3 one any day.
09-05-2008, 03:16 PM
#48
Race Director
If you're looking for a sporty car, the M5 just won't do. My family owned a 2000, and while it was quick, and a nice car, it was too heavy, understeered quite a bit, and just didn't have the sharper feel of the M3. A nice car, but compromised from the sporting perspective.
09-05-2008, 03:57 PM
#49
Nordschleife Master
Hard to say until we actually see one up close. I'd say that it's probably closer to the 5-series.
I'm in the market for a sedan in the next year or two and originally I had decided on it being a Panamera. I wanted something that's as fun to drive as my 996, but recognized that I needed a sedan for the family stuff. When the starting price was published as $50K-$100K I was okay with that. I'm now seeing starting prices of $127K and I'm not okay with that - not for the bottom of the range and a VW engine. If that's the case, then I'll end up with the M3 sedan.
I'm in the market for a sedan in the next year or two and originally I had decided on it being a Panamera. I wanted something that's as fun to drive as my 996, but recognized that I needed a sedan for the family stuff. When the starting price was published as $50K-$100K I was okay with that. I'm now seeing starting prices of $127K and I'm not okay with that - not for the bottom of the range and a VW engine. If that's the case, then I'll end up with the M3 sedan.
09-05-2008, 04:31 PM
#50
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My recent interest in a 996 is purely due to it's driving dynamics on track, even if it's ultimately slower than other cars in it's price range. The reliability, the easy nature of maintenance and the stealthier nature (though I have no need for the utility that comes with it) of the M3 is what had drawn me to them. The 911 is also better in many ways, but overall I certainly don't think it's in a different league.
09-05-2008, 04:37 PM
#51
09-05-2008, 11:13 PM
#52
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If you're looking for a sporty car, the M5 just won't do. My family owned a 2000, and while it was quick, and a nice car, it was too heavy, understeered quite a bit, and just didn't have the sharper feel of the M3. A nice car, but compromised from the sporting perspective.
Last edited by eDoug; 09-06-2008 at 11:16 AM.
09-06-2008, 11:09 AM
#56
Three Wheelin'
Except that the only two people in this thread (Andy and myself) who currently own both a 911 and an M3 concur that the m3 is a better all around car, and if forced to have only ONE car, would chose the M3. Both of us track both the cars moderately to heavily. The m3 is much 'easier' to drive because it is such a balanced car and there are many ways to be fast in an m3.
The m3 is faster in a straight line; it has substantially more power under the curve than the 911, and despite much better aero on the 911, you will see higher straightaway speeds.
It is heavier (my m3 listed above weighed in at 3230lbs w/ 1/4 gas and no backseats)
The m3 is not nearly as neutral as the 911, but if driven properly (trail breaking, smoother turn-in) this can be dealt with.
All M3s come with electronic/variable Limited slip differential from the factory. I hate having an open diff on my 911. This helps a lot putting power down out of slow corners and skid-pad maneuvers.
There are much more/cheaper options out there for suspension and other performance parts.
UTILITY !!!! Backseats, useable trunk, cup holders, much better interior.
The 911 looks better, has much better brake, steering, and shifting feel. I went to the 911 because i wanted to experience a porsche 911 rear engine dynamics and have a more performance based platform/chassis. Buying the 911 has shown me what a great job BMW had done with the M3. I love both cars and in the end went with the 911 because I have a daily driver and wanted a more challenging/rewarding driving experience.
I just hate people saying the m3 sucks because it is such a great car, and if these (most) people ran into an equally set-up M3 with equally experience driver, the m3 would pass them on track...
In the end just drive both and see which suits your wants/needs the best.
:edit:
I should say I am making this comparison based on the MK1 996 C2 only. I have never driven a MK2 Carrera
The m3 is faster in a straight line; it has substantially more power under the curve than the 911, and despite much better aero on the 911, you will see higher straightaway speeds.
It is heavier (my m3 listed above weighed in at 3230lbs w/ 1/4 gas and no backseats)
The m3 is not nearly as neutral as the 911, but if driven properly (trail breaking, smoother turn-in) this can be dealt with.
All M3s come with electronic/variable Limited slip differential from the factory. I hate having an open diff on my 911. This helps a lot putting power down out of slow corners and skid-pad maneuvers.
There are much more/cheaper options out there for suspension and other performance parts.
UTILITY !!!! Backseats, useable trunk, cup holders, much better interior.
The 911 looks better, has much better brake, steering, and shifting feel. I went to the 911 because i wanted to experience a porsche 911 rear engine dynamics and have a more performance based platform/chassis. Buying the 911 has shown me what a great job BMW had done with the M3. I love both cars and in the end went with the 911 because I have a daily driver and wanted a more challenging/rewarding driving experience.
I just hate people saying the m3 sucks because it is such a great car, and if these (most) people ran into an equally set-up M3 with equally experience driver, the m3 would pass them on track...
In the end just drive both and see which suits your wants/needs the best.
:edit:
I should say I am making this comparison based on the MK1 996 C2 only. I have never driven a MK2 Carrera
he drove my car once and said it was a totally different animal... and then he went to say he's never tracking his M3 again.
I've driven his M3 and it was a nice car... but you feel the heaviness and in terms of feel doesn't even come close to a porsche... feels like a modded 3 series... *a very capable modded 3 series* I might add... strait line the pcar edges it out and in terms of handling the ZCP package kicks butt... but so does the ROW 030 ... only thing is the M3 feels like a pig in the corners and destroys tires... and you need to put 19" tires on the M3 to take corners at track speeds or else its a no go... my 996 has 17" !!! braking on the M3 sucks as well... and so does the gearbox... not what I expected from an M car...
at the end of the day the M3 is for those who only want to spend the $$ on one car that has some practicality built into it.... great car for what your getting but its no pcar that's for sure... the ZCP M3 has great seats compared to the stock garbage seats that come in a pcar... I currently have a GT3 seat driver's seat and its one of the best mods you can make if you wanna "feel" and push your car to the limit...
the other thing I didn't like about the M3 is its raspy exhaust... sounded like its gonna break... but with an eisenmann exhaust you can really cure that problem...
also... the rear subframe is welded to the trunk so over time in tracking it will break unless you get it re-enforced.... not like a porsche...
also the 05-06 ZCP M3's have a really tough suspension that's great on the track but oh boy I would think twice before going on a road trip with that car... with the porsche...even with ROW 030... no problem... as stiff as you want it for a street car...
you pick.
09-06-2008, 11:51 AM
#57
Race Director
09-06-2008, 11:53 AM
#58
Race Director
wow, you must be fun at parties. Everybody who doesn't share your viewpoint is a "dolt", huh?
The ego can't handle it when someone doesn't care for your precious winged up Porsche?
relax guy. Im not going to take it away from you. You can drool over it all you want, but don't expect me to.
Cheers!
The ego can't handle it when someone doesn't care for your precious winged up Porsche?
relax guy. Im not going to take it away from you. You can drool over it all you want, but don't expect me to.
Cheers!
09-06-2008, 11:55 AM
#59
Race Director
To say the M5 isn't "sporty" relates more to a track analogy, in my opinion. In everyday driving - outside of canyon-type roads - I think you'd find it plenty spirited. But granted, it's more of an engaging autobahn cruiser, and less a canyon-carver by sheer weight - but my point was also that it's a good alternative to an M3 if one's considering bimmers.
But, considering that the OP was going back and forth between a 911 and an M3, I think the M5 would be a further step AWAY from the driving experience he is looking for because the M5 is a good bit cushier.
I've driven the M5 about 20k miles and its a great car, but I just didn't have the LOVE for it, that I had for say, my 95 M3.
09-06-2008, 11:57 AM
#60
Race Director
sorry I have to interject here..... I have a 99 c2 with ROW 030 suspension and race it all the time against my friends E46 ZCP M3.... at MOSPORT... a world class track.... he also has dinan mods on it... he has 360hp... on the the long strait away I pull him every time... even when I have a passenger... the pulling is evident in the top of 3rd gear and more so in 4th 5th and 6th....
he drove my car once and said it was a totally different animal... and then he went to say he's never tracking his M3 again.
I've driven his M3 and it was a nice car... but you feel the heaviness and in terms of feel doesn't even come close to a porsche... feels like a modded 3 series... *a very capable modded 3 series* I might add... strait line the pcar edges it out and in terms of handling the ZCP package kicks butt... but so does the ROW 030 ... only thing is the M3 feels like a pig in the corners and destroys tires... and you need to put 19" tires on the M3 to take corners at track speeds or else its a no go... my 996 has 17" !!! braking on the M3 sucks as well... and so does the gearbox... not what I expected from an M car...
at the end of the day the M3 is for those who only want to spend the $$ on one car that has some practicality built into it.... great car for what your getting but its no pcar that's for sure... the ZCP M3 has great seats compared to the stock garbage seats that come in a pcar... I currently have a GT3 seat driver's seat and its one of the best mods you can make if you wanna "feel" and push your car to the limit...
the other thing I didn't like about the M3 is its raspy exhaust... sounded like its gonna break... but with an eisenmann exhaust you can really cure that problem...
also... the rear subframe is welded to the trunk so over time in tracking it will break unless you get it re-enforced.... not like a porsche...
also the 05-06 ZCP M3's have a really tough suspension that's great on the track but oh boy I would think twice before going on a road trip with that car... with the porsche...even with ROW 030... no problem... as stiff as you want it for a street car...
you pick.
he drove my car once and said it was a totally different animal... and then he went to say he's never tracking his M3 again.
I've driven his M3 and it was a nice car... but you feel the heaviness and in terms of feel doesn't even come close to a porsche... feels like a modded 3 series... *a very capable modded 3 series* I might add... strait line the pcar edges it out and in terms of handling the ZCP package kicks butt... but so does the ROW 030 ... only thing is the M3 feels like a pig in the corners and destroys tires... and you need to put 19" tires on the M3 to take corners at track speeds or else its a no go... my 996 has 17" !!! braking on the M3 sucks as well... and so does the gearbox... not what I expected from an M car...
at the end of the day the M3 is for those who only want to spend the $$ on one car that has some practicality built into it.... great car for what your getting but its no pcar that's for sure... the ZCP M3 has great seats compared to the stock garbage seats that come in a pcar... I currently have a GT3 seat driver's seat and its one of the best mods you can make if you wanna "feel" and push your car to the limit...
the other thing I didn't like about the M3 is its raspy exhaust... sounded like its gonna break... but with an eisenmann exhaust you can really cure that problem...
also... the rear subframe is welded to the trunk so over time in tracking it will break unless you get it re-enforced.... not like a porsche...
also the 05-06 ZCP M3's have a really tough suspension that's great on the track but oh boy I would think twice before going on a road trip with that car... with the porsche...even with ROW 030... no problem... as stiff as you want it for a street car...
you pick.
The M3 brakes suck? The M3 gearbox sucks? You need 19s to take fast turns?
I think you are going a bit overboard here.