1st time at the dealer - tips/advice?
03-27-2008 | 01:02 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 3,736
Likes: 37
Hey everyone -
This will be my first car shopping experience, so was wondering if anybody had any tips on how to handle the salespeople, etc. The $54k asking price seems grossly off, but maybe I just don't realize how much haggle room there is (I know a rennlister just picked up a similar one for $48k and somebody's asking $45k for his).
This will be my first car shopping experience, so was wondering if anybody had any tips on how to handle the salespeople, etc. The $54k asking price seems grossly off, but maybe I just don't realize how much haggle room there is (I know a rennlister just picked up a similar one for $48k and somebody's asking $45k for his).
As far as stress at the dealer: I haven't had a pushy agent yet. These cars sell themselves, so the agents don't get in your face or try the hard sell on you. It may just be our location, but I've been to the 3 dealerships here many times (even after I bought my car) to look at the lot. Just remember, no matter how "in love" you are with a car, there's another one just like it or better for sale tomorrow
-td
03-27-2008 | 01:49 PM
#62
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 79
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From: Boston, MA
Razn- I tried to reread the whole thread, and didn't see you explain what are you going to use your car for? Will it be a Daily Driver, a compromise kid-mobile, a track baby, mod machine, AX/DE/Funner, garage queen, or a Sunday stroller? There is a lot of room to maneuver based on you intended use.
As far as stress at the dealer: I haven't had a pushy agent yet. These cars sell themselves, so the agents don't get in your face or try the hard sell on you. It may just be our location, but I've been to the 3 dealerships here many times (even after I bought my car) to look at the lot. Just remember, no matter how "in love" you are with a car, there's another one just like it or better for sale tomorrow
-td
As far as stress at the dealer: I haven't had a pushy agent yet. These cars sell themselves, so the agents don't get in your face or try the hard sell on you. It may just be our location, but I've been to the 3 dealerships here many times (even after I bought my car) to look at the lot. Just remember, no matter how "in love" you are with a car, there's another one just like it or better for sale tomorrow
-td
Yeah, my experience at the dealership was fairly laid back. He seemed to know less about p-cars (at least 996s) than me, which was kind of sad given all I know is from Top Gear and reading internet forums for two weeks.
03-27-2008 | 10:05 PM
#63
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Joined: Mar 2008
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From: Boston, MA
bitter, my own revised advice: go out and buy the cheapest facelift CPO 911 you can get your hands on in the color you want in the trim you need, beat the snot out of it for a couple of years. You'll worry less about all the pleasant traffic, parking, salt, and weather Boston has to offer, learn how to drive a fast car properly, and graduate to a Carrera S or Turbo or GT3 or Carrera GT or Cruise Missile or whatever you want to drive when you've had your fun with it.
Moreover, I think paying 54K for an 04 996 C4S is not a great idea, personally speaking, not with 05 997 prices where they are now that lease-returns are coming in. If you're going to drop that money, I think cheapest CPO 997 is the way to go from many angles, especially depreciation-wise. New Country in Greenwich has an 05 silver CPO 997 for 55K, there's an 05 CPO in Danbury for 59. Figure you'll knock something off these prices and get the updated interior and body style, same power, close weight for close to what you're trying to spend here. NO they won't keep up with a 996 turbo at 10/10ths or in a drag race, but by your own admission you might not keep up with the turbo either, and if you don't have time for a test drive I have a feeling you won't be tracking the car or hooning around drag strips. Check porscheusa.com for CPO inventory
Moreover, I think paying 54K for an 04 996 C4S is not a great idea, personally speaking, not with 05 997 prices where they are now that lease-returns are coming in. If you're going to drop that money, I think cheapest CPO 997 is the way to go from many angles, especially depreciation-wise. New Country in Greenwich has an 05 silver CPO 997 for 55K, there's an 05 CPO in Danbury for 59. Figure you'll knock something off these prices and get the updated interior and body style, same power, close weight for close to what you're trying to spend here. NO they won't keep up with a 996 turbo at 10/10ths or in a drag race, but by your own admission you might not keep up with the turbo either, and if you don't have time for a test drive I have a feeling you won't be tracking the car or hooning around drag strips. Check porscheusa.com for CPO inventory
Thanks for the advice. I don't expect to get a CPO Porsche since the premium seems unreasonably high. They charge an arm and a leg to warranty the 996s. Instead, I was planning on getting a decently optioned '03 C4S for $47k and spending $2-3k for an aftermarket service plan.
That being said, you raise a good point that I may be happier in a stock '05 997 given that I currently can't drive worth a damn. I guess the question is updated interior vs. sexy widebody? I thought for the $2k I'd save, I could probably mod the 996 interior to look more modern.
In terms of the expected depreciation hit on the 996s, shouldn't that have worked its way through the system? w/ 997s going on sale in summer of '04, the 3yr leases should have started flooding the market 6 months ago. Or am I doing that math wrong? I would've thought that the depreciation curve has flattened out for the 996 and is only just beginning to flatten for the 997?
I guess at the end of the day, $4-5k = 3 or 4 nights of heavy drinking w/ friends in NYC. But for me it's all about getting a bargain! I'm guessing you can understand, since you work in investment as well.
03-28-2008 | 09:05 PM
#64
Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 773
Likes: 1
From: CT
"I guess at the end of the day, $4-5k = 3 or 4 nights of heavy drinking w/ friends in NYC. "
Then please put me on the invite list to your next party!!!
Oh wait, on second thought, I'm getting way too old to drink like that
Then please put me on the invite list to your next party!!!
Oh wait, on second thought, I'm getting way too old to drink like that
03-29-2008 | 06:24 PM
#65
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,559
Likes: 3
From: NY/LA
Bitter
i'm always pinching the wrong pennies, but i do love a good deal!
> I just heard they changed the CPO to a one year warranty and raised the cost to boot, can't confirm, but you may be right on the money re: 3rd party plan. Just make sure you get a PPI done by someone who isn't in cahoots with the dealer. I would still buy a first Porsche from a Porsche dealer though.
> 997 was reworked a bit, flared wheel arches, a little more coke bottlesque, some think it looks more muscular than the 996 widebodies. I like both, and narrowbodies too.
> A base 996 C2 or 997 C2 is quicker more often than not than a 996 C4S, which has the same power but noticeably more weight and 4 wheel drive system. My comment about this being your first car was re: the turbo.
> If you are ditching CPO as a requirement, I'm betting you can get a 997 for pretty close to even money to the C4S. Drive em back to back, look at em side by side, and pull the trigger.
> Just remember a 996 C4S is only a bit more than an inch wider on each side than a C2 (60mm total) and under half an inch wider on either side than a 997, we're not talking 930-era narrow vs wide looks here, with 996 it's really a subtlety and lost on most, a thing that we car nuts obsess over. I like the widebodies, but it just wasn't enough of a difference for me. Of course many here will differ, and this is really just a matter of personal preference.
> Last note, if you go 997, try to get 18" wheels or geico/your insurer of choice zero deductible wheel & tire cover, every one of my buddies with a 997 in a major city and my lawyers on both coasts are riding on somehwat bent (or bent then straightened) 19" 997 factory wheels (I have 19s and am praying to the road work gods daily now that I'm back in NY)
------
BTW modeling the 993 v. 996 v. 997 depreciation curves is terrible, all plateaus & cliffs. Largely irrational (maybe not to one of my quant buddies), but outside of the GT2/GT3 these cars are priced to fashion (some would call it romance) more than anything else as production volumes do not account for the strange peaks and valleys, neither does performance/trim level (see 996 turbo vs. C4S pricing today). And while this comment will draw fire in this forum, I've found that factory customization options in particular are complete throwaways on resale, which does follow logic a bit better (see Anna Kournikova's 996).
After throwing my hands up in the air, my take is that the 997 in visually resembling a 993 but being as fast or faster than a 996 with with an interior like a freaking lexus made it an incredibly in demand lease vehicle, which meant low residuals in favor of Porsche/banks, which in conjunction with a soft market for sub-exotic vehicles (credit/crunch/real estate/banking/recession etc) has resulted in lower than expected secondary market pricing for the 997 at the moment. I'm only half serious and half exhausted because I started thinking about it again, but still, there's not a lot of "sense" in any of this. After all you're not buying a distressed asset, you're blowing some money on something fun, thats what these things are about. Insert cliches: Life's short, have fun, don't sweat the small stuff, etc.
i'm always pinching the wrong pennies, but i do love a good deal!
> I just heard they changed the CPO to a one year warranty and raised the cost to boot, can't confirm, but you may be right on the money re: 3rd party plan. Just make sure you get a PPI done by someone who isn't in cahoots with the dealer. I would still buy a first Porsche from a Porsche dealer though.
> 997 was reworked a bit, flared wheel arches, a little more coke bottlesque, some think it looks more muscular than the 996 widebodies. I like both, and narrowbodies too.
> A base 996 C2 or 997 C2 is quicker more often than not than a 996 C4S, which has the same power but noticeably more weight and 4 wheel drive system. My comment about this being your first car was re: the turbo.
> If you are ditching CPO as a requirement, I'm betting you can get a 997 for pretty close to even money to the C4S. Drive em back to back, look at em side by side, and pull the trigger.
> Just remember a 996 C4S is only a bit more than an inch wider on each side than a C2 (60mm total) and under half an inch wider on either side than a 997, we're not talking 930-era narrow vs wide looks here, with 996 it's really a subtlety and lost on most, a thing that we car nuts obsess over. I like the widebodies, but it just wasn't enough of a difference for me. Of course many here will differ, and this is really just a matter of personal preference.
> Last note, if you go 997, try to get 18" wheels or geico/your insurer of choice zero deductible wheel & tire cover, every one of my buddies with a 997 in a major city and my lawyers on both coasts are riding on somehwat bent (or bent then straightened) 19" 997 factory wheels (I have 19s and am praying to the road work gods daily now that I'm back in NY)
------
BTW modeling the 993 v. 996 v. 997 depreciation curves is terrible, all plateaus & cliffs. Largely irrational (maybe not to one of my quant buddies), but outside of the GT2/GT3 these cars are priced to fashion (some would call it romance) more than anything else as production volumes do not account for the strange peaks and valleys, neither does performance/trim level (see 996 turbo vs. C4S pricing today). And while this comment will draw fire in this forum, I've found that factory customization options in particular are complete throwaways on resale, which does follow logic a bit better (see Anna Kournikova's 996).
After throwing my hands up in the air, my take is that the 997 in visually resembling a 993 but being as fast or faster than a 996 with with an interior like a freaking lexus made it an incredibly in demand lease vehicle, which meant low residuals in favor of Porsche/banks, which in conjunction with a soft market for sub-exotic vehicles (credit/crunch/real estate/banking/recession etc) has resulted in lower than expected secondary market pricing for the 997 at the moment. I'm only half serious and half exhausted because I started thinking about it again, but still, there's not a lot of "sense" in any of this. After all you're not buying a distressed asset, you're blowing some money on something fun, thats what these things are about. Insert cliches: Life's short, have fun, don't sweat the small stuff, etc.
ht -
Thanks for the advice. I don't expect to get a CPO Porsche since the premium seems unreasonably high. They charge an arm and a leg to warranty the 996s. Instead, I was planning on getting a decently optioned '03 C4S for $47k and spending $2-3k for an aftermarket service plan.
That being said, you raise a good point that I may be happier in a stock '05 997 given that I currently can't drive worth a damn. I guess the question is updated interior vs. sexy widebody? I thought for the $2k I'd save, I could probably mod the 996 interior to look more modern.
In terms of the expected depreciation hit on the 996s, shouldn't that have worked its way through the system? w/ 997s going on sale in summer of '04, the 3yr leases should have started flooding the market 6 months ago. Or am I doing that math wrong? I would've thought that the depreciation curve has flattened out for the 996 and is only just beginning to flatten for the 997?
I guess at the end of the day, $4-5k = 3 or 4 nights of heavy drinking w/ friends in NYC. But for me it's all about getting a bargain! I'm guessing you can understand, since you work in investment as well.
Thanks for the advice. I don't expect to get a CPO Porsche since the premium seems unreasonably high. They charge an arm and a leg to warranty the 996s. Instead, I was planning on getting a decently optioned '03 C4S for $47k and spending $2-3k for an aftermarket service plan.
That being said, you raise a good point that I may be happier in a stock '05 997 given that I currently can't drive worth a damn. I guess the question is updated interior vs. sexy widebody? I thought for the $2k I'd save, I could probably mod the 996 interior to look more modern.
In terms of the expected depreciation hit on the 996s, shouldn't that have worked its way through the system? w/ 997s going on sale in summer of '04, the 3yr leases should have started flooding the market 6 months ago. Or am I doing that math wrong? I would've thought that the depreciation curve has flattened out for the 996 and is only just beginning to flatten for the 997?
I guess at the end of the day, $4-5k = 3 or 4 nights of heavy drinking w/ friends in NYC. But for me it's all about getting a bargain! I'm guessing you can understand, since you work in investment as well.
04-01-2008 | 04:22 PM
#66
Thread Starter
Advanced
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
From: Boston, MA
Bitter
i'm always pinching the wrong pennies, but i do love a good deal!
> I just heard they changed the CPO to a one year warranty and raised the cost to boot, can't confirm, but you may be right on the money re: 3rd party plan. Just make sure you get a PPI done by someone who isn't in cahoots with the dealer. I would still buy a first Porsche from a Porsche dealer though.
> 997 was reworked a bit, flared wheel arches, a little more coke bottlesque, some think it looks more muscular than the 996 widebodies. I like both, and narrowbodies too.
> A base 996 C2 or 997 C2 is quicker more often than not than a 996 C4S, which has the same power but noticeably more weight and 4 wheel drive system. My comment about this being your first car was re: the turbo.
> If you are ditching CPO as a requirement, I'm betting you can get a 997 for pretty close to even money to the C4S. Drive em back to back, look at em side by side, and pull the trigger.
> Just remember a 996 C4S is only a bit more than an inch wider on each side than a C2 (60mm total) and under half an inch wider on either side than a 997, we're not talking 930-era narrow vs wide looks here, with 996 it's really a subtlety and lost on most, a thing that we car nuts obsess over. I like the widebodies, but it just wasn't enough of a difference for me. Of course many here will differ, and this is really just a matter of personal preference.
> Last note, if you go 997, try to get 18" wheels or geico/your insurer of choice zero deductible wheel & tire cover, every one of my buddies with a 997 in a major city and my lawyers on both coasts are riding on somehwat bent (or bent then straightened) 19" 997 factory wheels (I have 19s and am praying to the road work gods daily now that I'm back in NY)
------
BTW modeling the 993 v. 996 v. 997 depreciation curves is terrible, all plateaus & cliffs. Largely irrational (maybe not to one of my quant buddies), but outside of the GT2/GT3 these cars are priced to fashion (some would call it romance) more than anything else as production volumes do not account for the strange peaks and valleys, neither does performance/trim level (see 996 turbo vs. C4S pricing today). And while this comment will draw fire in this forum, I've found that factory customization options in particular are complete throwaways on resale, which does follow logic a bit better (see Anna Kournikova's 996).
After throwing my hands up in the air, my take is that the 997 in visually resembling a 993 but being as fast or faster than a 996 with with an interior like a freaking lexus made it an incredibly in demand lease vehicle, which meant low residuals in favor of Porsche/banks, which in conjunction with a soft market for sub-exotic vehicles (credit/crunch/real estate/banking/recession etc) has resulted in lower than expected secondary market pricing for the 997 at the moment. I'm only half serious and half exhausted because I started thinking about it again, but still, there's not a lot of "sense" in any of this. After all you're not buying a distressed asset, you're blowing some money on something fun, thats what these things are about. Insert cliches: Life's short, have fun, don't sweat the small stuff, etc.
i'm always pinching the wrong pennies, but i do love a good deal!
> I just heard they changed the CPO to a one year warranty and raised the cost to boot, can't confirm, but you may be right on the money re: 3rd party plan. Just make sure you get a PPI done by someone who isn't in cahoots with the dealer. I would still buy a first Porsche from a Porsche dealer though.
> 997 was reworked a bit, flared wheel arches, a little more coke bottlesque, some think it looks more muscular than the 996 widebodies. I like both, and narrowbodies too.
> A base 996 C2 or 997 C2 is quicker more often than not than a 996 C4S, which has the same power but noticeably more weight and 4 wheel drive system. My comment about this being your first car was re: the turbo.
> If you are ditching CPO as a requirement, I'm betting you can get a 997 for pretty close to even money to the C4S. Drive em back to back, look at em side by side, and pull the trigger.
> Just remember a 996 C4S is only a bit more than an inch wider on each side than a C2 (60mm total) and under half an inch wider on either side than a 997, we're not talking 930-era narrow vs wide looks here, with 996 it's really a subtlety and lost on most, a thing that we car nuts obsess over. I like the widebodies, but it just wasn't enough of a difference for me. Of course many here will differ, and this is really just a matter of personal preference.
> Last note, if you go 997, try to get 18" wheels or geico/your insurer of choice zero deductible wheel & tire cover, every one of my buddies with a 997 in a major city and my lawyers on both coasts are riding on somehwat bent (or bent then straightened) 19" 997 factory wheels (I have 19s and am praying to the road work gods daily now that I'm back in NY)
------
BTW modeling the 993 v. 996 v. 997 depreciation curves is terrible, all plateaus & cliffs. Largely irrational (maybe not to one of my quant buddies), but outside of the GT2/GT3 these cars are priced to fashion (some would call it romance) more than anything else as production volumes do not account for the strange peaks and valleys, neither does performance/trim level (see 996 turbo vs. C4S pricing today). And while this comment will draw fire in this forum, I've found that factory customization options in particular are complete throwaways on resale, which does follow logic a bit better (see Anna Kournikova's 996).
After throwing my hands up in the air, my take is that the 997 in visually resembling a 993 but being as fast or faster than a 996 with with an interior like a freaking lexus made it an incredibly in demand lease vehicle, which meant low residuals in favor of Porsche/banks, which in conjunction with a soft market for sub-exotic vehicles (credit/crunch/real estate/banking/recession etc) has resulted in lower than expected secondary market pricing for the 997 at the moment. I'm only half serious and half exhausted because I started thinking about it again, but still, there's not a lot of "sense" in any of this. After all you're not buying a distressed asset, you're blowing some money on something fun, thats what these things are about. Insert cliches: Life's short, have fun, don't sweat the small stuff, etc.
Went to the dealership over the weekend and got a test drive in the c4s. While the grip was insane, it was hard to get over the aesthetics of the interior compared to the 997.
I'm looking into the $55k 997 you mentioned in Greenwich. Inventory is surprisingly light, but I suspect that will change as leases continue to roll-off, 4 year warranties begin to come due, and investment banks slowly implode.
Yeah it's not exactly like vulture investing, but I work at a credit hedge fund, so what do you expect me to do?
As always, thanks for the advice. I'm now trolling the 997 board.
04-01-2008 | 05:23 PM
#67
Drifting
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,129
Likes: 21
From: Saint Louis.
htny -
Went to the dealership over the weekend and got a test drive in the c4s. While the grip was insane, it was hard to get over the aesthetics of the interior compared to the 997.
I'm looking into the $55k 997 you mentioned in Greenwich. Inventory is surprisingly light, but I suspect that will change as leases continue to roll-off, 4 year warranties begin to come due, and investment banks slowly implode.
Yeah it's not exactly like vulture investing, but I work at a credit hedge fund, so what do you expect me to do?
As always, thanks for the advice. I'm now trolling the 997 board.
Went to the dealership over the weekend and got a test drive in the c4s. While the grip was insane, it was hard to get over the aesthetics of the interior compared to the 997.
I'm looking into the $55k 997 you mentioned in Greenwich. Inventory is surprisingly light, but I suspect that will change as leases continue to roll-off, 4 year warranties begin to come due, and investment banks slowly implode.
Yeah it's not exactly like vulture investing, but I work at a credit hedge fund, so what do you expect me to do?
As always, thanks for the advice. I'm now trolling the 997 board.
Good luck and keep us posted.
04-01-2008 | 07:15 PM
#68
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,559
Likes: 3
From: NY/LA
If you're going to spend the money, I think you'll like the 997, it's a direct response to most of the complaints about 996s by most people, interior and exterior are that much fresher.
Just bang as hard as you can on the price, you'll always get something off of anything they list online. Unlike most credit you're buying, it is an active market and there will be other bidders, but if you're not pressed to buy immediately, take your time, watch inventory regularly, and you'll have one at a price you like before you know it.
Just bang as hard as you can on the price, you'll always get something off of anything they list online. Unlike most credit you're buying, it is an active market and there will be other bidders, but if you're not pressed to buy immediately, take your time, watch inventory regularly, and you'll have one at a price you like before you know it.
htny -
Went to the dealership over the weekend and got a test drive in the c4s. While the grip was insane, it was hard to get over the aesthetics of the interior compared to the 997.
I'm looking into the $55k 997 you mentioned in Greenwich. Inventory is surprisingly light, but I suspect that will change as leases continue to roll-off, 4 year warranties begin to come due, and investment banks slowly implode.
Yeah it's not exactly like vulture investing, but I work at a credit hedge fund, so what do you expect me to do?
As always, thanks for the advice. I'm now trolling the 997 board.
Went to the dealership over the weekend and got a test drive in the c4s. While the grip was insane, it was hard to get over the aesthetics of the interior compared to the 997.
I'm looking into the $55k 997 you mentioned in Greenwich. Inventory is surprisingly light, but I suspect that will change as leases continue to roll-off, 4 year warranties begin to come due, and investment banks slowly implode.
Yeah it's not exactly like vulture investing, but I work at a credit hedge fund, so what do you expect me to do?
As always, thanks for the advice. I'm now trolling the 997 board.