Ranger

I've been laying low for a couple weeks. Blew the motor on my '99 and was working it out with an aftermarket warranty outfit. PM me and I'll give you their name.

Several weeks ago Dell posted a question about a snapped timing chain. That was at my request. I was keeping my name out of it.

What happened: The prevailing theory is that one of my intermediate shafts let go. That released a timing chain which turned the inside of the motor into metal confetti. It also punched a hole thru the motor's water jacket, and all the way thru the case.

Coolant got into a cylinder and hydrostatic lock snapped a connecting rod. Coolant also sprayed past an exhaust valve and blew out a catalytic conv.

My car has under 50k mi. It has never had a mechanical over-rev, at least since I bought it. It's very unlikely that it's previous owner ever tracked it.

The early negotiations with the warranty co. were worrisome. They were completely unwilling to communicate with me in writing in any way. So their outrageous attempts to twist the Queen's English on various contract terms went unrecorded. I spent a week anxious that maybe my warranty contract was just a scam. But in the end, reason prevailed and they payed for all of a refurb motor and most of the associated labor. The refurb motor itself cost $9+k. I'm staying lean on details out of newfound awareness of privacy concerns.

A warranty contract clause that applied only to my state saved my ***.

My perception was that the warranty company shorted me around $1800 but the dealer says I did pretty well, based on their experience.

After this experience, I would recommend aftermarket warranties. Further, I would be certain to buy (as I did) the more expensive exclusionary type that covers everything except that which is explicity excluded. And I would read the fine print and have them answer some critical questions in writing. Unfortunately, you have to go thru an experience like this to know what to ask.

The helpful guy that sells you the policy will be replaced by a black-hearted word-twisting call center SOB when your car fails. And then it will be the fine print that makes or breaks you.

This effort also brought home how casual I'd become about allowing personal info to be on the Internet. I spent some time removing almost every post I'd ever made on a number of Porsche forums. My last name had been part of my username.

The warranty excluded "racing or competitive driving". I've never raced, nor have I driven "competitively", as long as it's defined reasonably. My definition of a "competitive" event requires a winner and a loser, and a measuring device like a clock or a tape measure. So if there's no winner and no measuring, it ain't competitive. But the other party's lawyers aren't paid to be reasonable, they're paid to take you to arbitration and make the whole process such a hassle that you go away.

You absolutely cannot hope to defend yourself solely on a reasonable interpretation of English. And that's really important to understand in our enthusiast world of a man's word is his bond. They will point to a phrase in the contract and say "that means you have to pay". And the phrase clearly says nothing of the sort. It can be like debating with a 5yr old.

If they can Google your name and come up with references to you being on the track, you're going to be in the hurt-locker. They don't have to be right. Their arguement doesn't have to be legit. It only has to give them a pretext to take the claim to arbitration. And there it will languish until it goes before some judge that sees no distinction between a DE and NASCAR.

Mfletch

Ranger, I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I can just imagine that it was pretty miserable from what you described. It is nice to think that in a perfect world, everyone you deal with in a business transaction would be honorable and stand by their word.....unfortunately this is not the case. I'm glad that you recovered most of the cost of the engine replacement. It's pretty sad that you had to go through and probably delete any reference that you made to preformance driving or track events. Thanks for sharing the experience with the rest of us.

manny_g

Thanks for posting your experience. Insurance/warranty companies love to take your money, but when its their time to pay up, it always becames a hassle. How long did it take them to pay from the time you reported the claim? Once your warranty expires do they give you an opportunity to renew?

Glad you have been able to recupe most of your damages.

Benjamin Choi

Really appreciate you coming out like this and sharing with us your candid thoughts under not-so-great circumstances.

I actually bought my aftermarket warranty through my Porsche dealer so that I have at least a face and an office I can run to and "engage" should anything happen that warrants a significant payout relative to the cost of the warranty.

I did go for the exclusionary coverage, but didn't go through the fine print to which next time I shall thanks to your good advice.

Good luck with it.

Ranger

It took the warrant co. <2 weeks to decide to pay for the motor. They paid their share a week after the work was complete. Much of that <2 weeks were consumed by wrangling over the language of the warrant contract.

All in all it was not a miserable event. Getting the car home was a significant challenge, but there's few hurdles that a good credit card can't overcome. I was so worried that the warranty company was going to entirely punk me, that ultimately paying <1/4 of the total bill had me celebrating.

Aside from all of the hassle and anxeity, if you paid $3800 for a new motor, clutch and cat, would it be a bad thing? It might not be a net gain, but if it's a net loss, it's a small one.

I don't know about renewal. They might not perceive me as their favorite customer.

manny_g

How much did the warranty cost?

washington dc porsche

I've seen aftermarket and manufacturers use the internet against folks at 1/4 mile tracks and from license plate shots to match screen names to folks they warranty. Also, I've seen on this board how many folks create new screen names to post about their engine blowing. It seems to me that many people just don't get it so they beat up the guy like "internet gansters" do until it happens to them.

I'm glad it all worked out for you. Are you keeping the Porsche?

Wellardmac

Sorry that you had such a bad experience. It's a pity that we're not allowed to use the car for the things that it was designed to do for fear of having our warrenties voided.

Wear and tear on the car was the reason that I made the decision not to track my car, your experience just reinforces that decision.

Ranger

A couple of additional issues have come out of PM's. Make no mistake, my impression of the aftermarket warranty outfit is fairly favorable. The process was not easy, but I've heard horror stories from others re. warranty claims against other aftermarket warranty outfits. In fact, my story is perhaps more positive then any other I've read. And note that the Porsche dealer said that based on their experience, I'd done quite well.

If you have an aftermarket warranty, or are considering such, here's some things you might do. Get answers to these issues in writing. Negotiate with them if you don't like their answers. Alternately, an arguement could be made that it behooves you to allow some of the ideas and terms to remain ambiguous. In court, ambiguiety is traditionally held against the drafter of the document. So forcing them to precisely define something doesn't necessarily work in your favor.

1. Look for a sentance about "authorizing" teardown to determine scope of damage. Who pays for this? Who decides it's necessary? What if the warranty company wants you to pay for teardown but PCNA says that teardown is a needless expense?

2. Look for a sentance that discusses how many hours of labor they will pay for, and at what labor rate. Who determines this? Based on what? Don't let them get away with some ambiguous word like "reasonable". You want it to say "reasonable as defined by PCNA".

3. Be sure to read the State specific clauses that are probably in the back of the contract.

4. "Normal Service" like brake pads, clutches and exhaust systems aren't covered. But what if your an engine failure dynamites your clutch? What if a timing chain failure allows a piston to blow a valve thru your cat? Those are clearly not "service" related failures.

These guys are only friendly when you are paying them. Once you have a claim with them, it's waaaayyy to late to work these thing out. In writing, of course.

Riad

If I were ever looking to get an aftermarket warranty I would certainly print out this thread for future reference.

Good job my friend, and thank you for taking the time to post it.

DFC

Thanks for sharing your story, and sorry to hear of your aggravation, it is good to hear that at least the outcome is mostly positive (and you get a new remanuf motor to boot). There are some very good/interesting points here.

Chuck Jones

Ranger:

Really good information for those of us out there who don't have a warranty and are considering getting one. Your points are relevant and very informative. I hadn't given any thought to the prospect of a warranty company going out on the internet to Google your name to see if you've made any mention in any forum about racing or competing with your car; or even perhaps your "mindset" about how you drive.....very interesting slant on the methodology the insurance company might use to discredit your claim and remove or reduce their liability. I use my actual name in forums...always have....and I can see how that little fact might serve to reduce what you thought was your expectation of privacy. Never thought of it in this light.....interesting. Others should take heed. I certainly will.

I was thinking of looking for a warranty company, and will now be armed with a little more good information. I can also see how you have to be careful what you say while the assessment process with the warranty folks is ongoing.

Ranger

The warranty cost ~$2800.

Another issue that came out of the warranty is aftermarket bolt-ons. Those can certainly be an issue. It's important to understand that this is not about logic or common sense, it's about not giving the word-distorting lawyers anything that might tempt them to drag you into the certain nightmare of arbitration. The warranty has affected my choices with what to modify and where to source it. When I wanted to upgrade the suspension I went with ROW M030, because I figured that the after market warranty company would have trouble holding that against me.

I also have a B&M SSK, but I think they make the Porsche OEM SSK too, so they're likely hard to tell apart. But if I'd already done mods and I was contemplating an aftermarket warranty, I'd require that they state in writing that my mods don't impact the warranty.

There is a Fed aftermarket mod warranty act called Magnusson-Moss that might play here. Or M-M may only apply to OEM warranties.

BruceP

First off, I'm very sorry for what you've been through and I hope that things work out for you going forward.

Speaking for myself - and just myself - I have to say that it all just doesn't seem worth it. The warranty ends up costing a quarter of what a new motor would cost (surely our odds are better than 1:4), you then have to be paranoid about what you put on the car, how you drive it and where you talk about it publicly, and if the warranty comes into play you still have some grief and expense to deal with in the process.

Me, I'd rather 'self insure'. If owning a Porsche can't be fun, I just don't see the point. And if you would be so financially screwed by an engine failure that you're willing to pay 25% of the cost of it forward, then this particular car might not be a great choice. I can see the economics of it if you depend on a vehicle for your living, like a contractor with a pickup truck. But not for a toy.

Just my .02, YMMV, all that. Again, good luck. I hope you're back on the road and enjoying yourself soon.

Chuck Jones

BruceP: Your logic has merit....because I've been tossing around the do it/don't do it decision making process.....One has to consider that the insurance companies would NEVER insure all you folks out there unless they could be guaranteed of a profit. That means that there are a LOT of Porsches insured with aftermarket warranties that never have anything go wrong....therefore the profit equation remains in the black. The minute the profit equation went into the red, they'd shut down the aftermarket insurance program and only deal with the grandfathered folks until attrition eventually killed off the whole program.

That means to me....that I can make the same sort of "bet" that my car will not grenade and have the statistics stacked in my favor. Like Bruce said....by buying into the warranty program, you're already about 25% of the way into a rebuilt motor....with the statistics still on your side. You also have to factor in how many folks who have bought these warranties have been DENIED for just the sorts of reasons or excuses that we've seen....like looking through the Internet forums for "evidence" of your driving habits. An adjuster's first obligation is to the company who hired him...and he's paid to figure out ways to DENY your claim and save the company money. In some cases, the denials are warranted, because some of the folks out there use a warranty as a carte blanc reason to beat the crap out of a car knowing that if they blow the engine it's "insured". That creates an atmosphere of mistrust on the part of the insurance companies because they are fully aware that a certain percentage of the claims are the result of flat out abuse.

But back to Bruce's original thought....self-insured folks. Sure I have moments of anxiety about intermix, a failed intermediate shaft, or cracked heads....and sure I alert to any strange vibration, unusual coolant smell, or sudden unexplained surging of the engine....but at some point, we've just got to realize that these are great cars, we bought them because they are in fact a PORSCHE. We've just got to go drive them and enjoy the reason we bought them in the first place. I've put aside $12K as my "insurance policy"....and I'm betting (just like the insurance companies) that I'll be a member of the 90-95% of Porsche owners who won't have to use it.