Watch for Porsche warranty if you track or mod your car
10-03-2002, 06:47 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
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Watch for Porsche warranty if you track or mod your car
As you may know from my earlier post, I have been in a battle with my dealer on their denial of warranty coverage for a repair on my engine due to the fact that I have a TRG Unichip installed.
After getting nowhere with the local service manager, I escalated to the zone rep. He called me today and left me two voice-mails but would not give me a number where I could reach him directly.
Basically he said not only would they not honor the warranty on my car for this repair they were canceling warranty coverage on the drivetrain and emissions completely. Their rationale?
He referred to a couple clauses in the warranty document that he claimed say the car can not be modified and can not be used on the track at all.
Based on what he said, I would conclude that modifying the DME in any way (piggyback chip or reprogramming) and/or driving it in a DE type event are grounds for PCNA to void your warranty if they find out.
Since he never talked to me directly, I asked him how he concluded that my car was used on the track. He claimed it was from its "configuration" - whatever that means.
I guess if you install coil-overs and a bolt-in roll bar, that implies the car is being used on the track - in PCNA's mind anyway.
In any event, the repair bill is about $3K and the loss of the remaining warranty is also worth something in resale value on my car, so I'm talking to a lawyer tomorrow to see what my options are.
Forewarned is forearmed.
After getting nowhere with the local service manager, I escalated to the zone rep. He called me today and left me two voice-mails but would not give me a number where I could reach him directly.
Basically he said not only would they not honor the warranty on my car for this repair they were canceling warranty coverage on the drivetrain and emissions completely. Their rationale?
He referred to a couple clauses in the warranty document that he claimed say the car can not be modified and can not be used on the track at all.
Based on what he said, I would conclude that modifying the DME in any way (piggyback chip or reprogramming) and/or driving it in a DE type event are grounds for PCNA to void your warranty if they find out.
Since he never talked to me directly, I asked him how he concluded that my car was used on the track. He claimed it was from its "configuration" - whatever that means.
I guess if you install coil-overs and a bolt-in roll bar, that implies the car is being used on the track - in PCNA's mind anyway.
In any event, the repair bill is about $3K and the loss of the remaining warranty is also worth something in resale value on my car, so I'm talking to a lawyer tomorrow to see what my options are.
Forewarned is forearmed.
10-04-2002, 12:55 AM
#3
Nordschleife Master
That sucks. It might be the service rep that sucks, though.
On my last service, I specfically told the service GM and my salesman that I wanted the oil and filter changed at 7,500 miles, as well as have the brakes and drive train checked thoroughly since I was tracking the car. Not racing but using it for DE's. We then got into a discussion on warrantee coverage. They both assured me that so long as I followed the maintenance schedule, kept the car in STOCK trim, the warrantee will be honored and the car will remain covered. I then told them I had a set of Porsche Turbo wheels that I plan to replace the turbo-looks with, and that I was considering buying the Porsche OEM roll cage for the C4S from Carnewal. They told me the roll cage was fine (they said they would be more than happy to install it for me
), and that the turbo wheels were a stretch but that it was OK.
After that, I didn't mention that I was also considering track tires and track brake pads, as well as adding more negative camber. From the discussion, it appears that deviating from the stock specs WILL void the new car warrantee. Tracking the car or adding Porsche parts designed for the car is OK. What got you in trouble was the TRG Unichip, and they just went on to cover their as##s from there. With a non-standard, non-Porsche critical part, I don't know if you have a leg to stand on if the service rep decides to go by the book. Just my .02.
On my last service, I specfically told the service GM and my salesman that I wanted the oil and filter changed at 7,500 miles, as well as have the brakes and drive train checked thoroughly since I was tracking the car. Not racing but using it for DE's. We then got into a discussion on warrantee coverage. They both assured me that so long as I followed the maintenance schedule, kept the car in STOCK trim, the warrantee will be honored and the car will remain covered. I then told them I had a set of Porsche Turbo wheels that I plan to replace the turbo-looks with, and that I was considering buying the Porsche OEM roll cage for the C4S from Carnewal. They told me the roll cage was fine (they said they would be more than happy to install it for me
), and that the turbo wheels were a stretch but that it was OK.After that, I didn't mention that I was also considering track tires and track brake pads, as well as adding more negative camber. From the discussion, it appears that deviating from the stock specs WILL void the new car warrantee. Tracking the car or adding Porsche parts designed for the car is OK. What got you in trouble was the TRG Unichip, and they just went on to cover their as##s from there. With a non-standard, non-Porsche critical part, I don't know if you have a leg to stand on if the service rep decides to go by the book. Just my .02.
10-04-2002, 02:46 AM
#4
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Karl:
I would suggest that you & your attorney familarize yourselves with the Magnussen-Moss Act of Congress. You have specific rights in all limited warranties that define the language and any exceptions (or not) very clearly.
The burden of proof is not yours, its the manufacturer's.
Best of luck, Sir.
I would suggest that you & your attorney familarize yourselves with the Magnussen-Moss Act of Congress. You have specific rights in all limited warranties that define the language and any exceptions (or not) very clearly.
The burden of proof is not yours, its the manufacturer's.
Best of luck, Sir.
10-04-2002, 05:03 AM
#5
Karl,
Just curious - how did the dealer find out you had the TRG Unichip installed? Did you volunteer the information or was it discovered during a routine service?
Also, I think that the presence of a roll-bar (in anyone's mind) is conclusive proof of tracking.
Good luck with the claim, though - but I think you have an uphill struggle (good for your lawyer's bank balance, I suppose!.
Regards
Jason
Just curious - how did the dealer find out you had the TRG Unichip installed? Did you volunteer the information or was it discovered during a routine service?
Also, I think that the presence of a roll-bar (in anyone's mind) is conclusive proof of tracking.
Good luck with the claim, though - but I think you have an uphill struggle (good for your lawyer's bank balance, I suppose!.
Regards
Jason
10-04-2002, 10:55 AM
#6
Burning Brakes
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Karl,
Sorry about your issues, however, I am surprised that you were not aware of that warranty clause. Almost every mfg has that in their warranty policy. The current warranty policy exempts "Modifications not authorized by Porsche Cars N.A." and "racing or track use".
Oddly enough, the same policy says "Porsche's race-bred heritage demands that tires are an integral part of the vehicle suspension, braking, and active safety systems. As a result, all Porsches are equipped with tires designed for higher performance than those found on other passenger vehicles."
Porsches are designed for performance, but if you use it, you void the warranty! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
Good luck with your claim.
Roy
ps. No I'm not a walking warranty book, I read it in order to help another OEM rewrite their current warranty policy...
Sorry about your issues, however, I am surprised that you were not aware of that warranty clause. Almost every mfg has that in their warranty policy. The current warranty policy exempts "Modifications not authorized by Porsche Cars N.A." and "racing or track use".
Oddly enough, the same policy says "Porsche's race-bred heritage demands that tires are an integral part of the vehicle suspension, braking, and active safety systems. As a result, all Porsches are equipped with tires designed for higher performance than those found on other passenger vehicles."
Porsches are designed for performance, but if you use it, you void the warranty! <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />
Good luck with your claim.
Roy
ps. No I'm not a walking warranty book, I read it in order to help another OEM rewrite their current warranty policy...
10-04-2002, 12:34 PM
#7
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Karl,
You are going to have to play hardball with them to get your money back.
Porsches have alway been sold as a track ready, street machine.
How could changing your alignment affect your warranty? Or adding a roll bar or track tires? As Steve said the burden of proof is theirs.
On the bright side you got more warranty that I got with my 993 (2 years). I had a lifter replaced in my 993 and it was obviously a track/street car as it had Hoosier's and JRZ's installed. Dealer never said anything and he knew that I was on my way to an event they co-sponsored the next weekend.
You are going to have to play hardball with them to get your money back.
Porsches have alway been sold as a track ready, street machine.
How could changing your alignment affect your warranty? Or adding a roll bar or track tires? As Steve said the burden of proof is theirs.
On the bright side you got more warranty that I got with my 993 (2 years). I had a lifter replaced in my 993 and it was obviously a track/street car as it had Hoosier's and JRZ's installed. Dealer never said anything and he knew that I was on my way to an event they co-sponsored the next weekend.
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10-04-2002, 03:19 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Wow- that really blows. It maybe comes down to dealer. I just don't understand why they would make such a point of sticking this to you since cars of this stature are made to go on the track and that alot of people do things to their car to make it better. I even had my dealer put in my Pagids and bleed with ATE and they didn't make a big deal about warranty issues. But then again if something happened then I wouldn't know. The Unichip is detectable though via them reading out fault codes. Being a loyal customer I would expect them to treat you more fairly since they should know repeat business is more important then making this warranty a big issue then it is. Hope it does work out but would have reservations about dealing with this dealership again. Regards. Mike
10-04-2002, 07:34 PM
#9
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Karl,
Think about his argument on tracking and all the DE events co-sponsored by PCNA (they let clubs use their TM)...
I think that it will be pretty easy for you to win this argument and then as Steve said, the burden of proof is on them...
JM
Think about his argument on tracking and all the DE events co-sponsored by PCNA (they let clubs use their TM)...
I think that it will be pretty easy for you to win this argument and then as Steve said, the burden of proof is on them...
JM
10-04-2002, 11:42 PM
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Hey Karl,
Since you and I are in the same (No. Va.) area, I'm wondering if you got the car locally, and if so from which dealer, so I can avoid them in the future.
Also, I'd like to make sure it's not my dealer (Heishman, now Porsche of Arlington). That would be a BIG surprise, since they provide free track inspections and always talk with me about my track events when I bring the car in. But I'm curious, anyhow.
=Carlos=
Since you and I are in the same (No. Va.) area, I'm wondering if you got the car locally, and if so from which dealer, so I can avoid them in the future.
Also, I'd like to make sure it's not my dealer (Heishman, now Porsche of Arlington). That would be a BIG surprise, since they provide free track inspections and always talk with me about my track events when I bring the car in. But I'm curious, anyhow.
=Carlos=
