roschpe

I hope to God that Porsche spends as much time "f-ing around" on a new 911, as it is doing on the SUV.


<img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" />

Tabor

I don't know what you are talking about. I want to see the new SUV in the Paris-Dakar ralley.

Bill H. Ocala Fl.

The New Cayenne is a beautiful vehicle. I have seen it touched it and am thrilled at how it looks inside and out.

I as many were anticipated it looking plain and boring but it is anything but that. The spy pictures do not do it justice at all.

As for spending as much time on the 911 as they do on this SUV. Well how do they please everyone? Many feel they spent to much time changing the 911, and others not enough. What is the correct amount of change?

As for racing, keep in mind that the Cayenne is the vehicle that will allow Porsche to survive and be able to keep building the sports cars we all seem to love. Without it you would see your beloved 911 become a Mercedes, Audi or maybe a BMW built car. Then what would the comments be?

Barre

Amen, Bill.

Porsche is first and foremost a business. They have to do what they think is required to survive and profit.

The market will decide whether the Cayenne is a good move or not, right?

I'm excited to see it in person.

bloke

PORSCHE IS A COMPANY WHO NEEDS TO MAKE MONEY.

HUMMM I DONT KNOW WHAT KINDA BUSINESS MODEL YOU BEEN LOOKING AT BUT PORSCHE THE BRAND NAME IS WORTH A LOT MORE THEN ANYTHING ELSE.

So selling SUV and distancing themselves from the loyal fan is a big mistake on a downturn. I personally wouldnt buy a Porsche SUV. Why bother, just say money at a JEEP.

Mike in Chi

Hi Bloke

(From an earlier post, also in response to a roschpe thread)

About brands.

Porsche's brand equity was built with sports cars. The essence of it is performance. And like all brands, theirs has to be protected, maintained and kept healthy.

But businesses are built -- grown -- by extending brand equity to new products. That's why Sony makes far more than the transistor radios they started with.

Porsche's equity is in performance and competition. It can easily be extended to an SUV, for most of the people who are attracted to the brand.

I recently received their mailing for the Cayenne.

It looks like they are marketing it around their off road competition heritage. Like the Monte Carlo rally, and the 959. My guess is they will be racing the Cayenne in Paris-Dakar, Baja 1000 and other off road endurance racers, as soon as it is launched.

It fits. High performance and competition, the brand character, now in an SUV.

Porsche builds great cars that are a ball to drive. They haven't let us down yet.

I think they can do exactly that with an SUV. They are already claiming the Turbo Cayenne will OUTPERFORM the current Carrera (Nov. Automobile). If that's true, they haven't hurt the brand. They have not even merely maintained it. They have enhanced it.

I'm willing to give the factory the benefit of the doubt. I may be one of the more moderate about this issue, but I'm not going to condemn the Cayenne til I drive it.

In addition to my Porsches, I also own a Jeep GC with 100,000 miles on it. It's a great vehicle, and as you point out, offers a lot of value. But would I consider an SUV that has all the fun and performance of a Porsche to replace it? You betcha.

A financial healthy, less cyclical and independent company is the best scenario for PAG, and for those of us who love the cars, AND the brand.

This is all just my opinion, of course, but it is a professional opinion. I have been in marketing and advertising for close to 30 years.

(A free business lesson learned in those thirty years: Never let your personal feelings cloud your thinking.)

Mike

roschpe

Sorry Mike, but this string is not about the SUV.
It is about the 911.

I don't give a flying f, if Porsche decides to build lawnmowers, but don't "***** foot" 911 development.

Porsche = Idiots if they blow another generation of 911s.

bloke

Mike,

i dont think selling a high brand name like porsche is selling a $100 walkman. Lets me realistic about the customer base. The last time i check the customer profile and average income was 200k per year or better. So, your idea of great marketing is get into a market that is so saturated with Mercedes, BMW, Range Rover and whoever else and expect people to drive a $100k SUV. Also, I think the market share also suggest that the buyers of high end SUV isnt a male but rather a woman. So, let me see if i was a woman in my 30-50 with high income or lifestyle. I am not buying a porsche.

Thanks for your professional opinion about marketing but like i said this isnt a $100 walkman.

Plus, final note regarding the brand name. How long before people relize that porsche no longer competes in the F1, IRL, Cart or any other big profile series. Big deal we got bunch of GT3 running around. Lets see if we can get into the big circuit. I would like to run arond and show off the colors of porsche but at what event. NOT F1.

Mike in Chi

Roschpe

[quote] Porsche = Idiots if they blow another generation of 911s <hr></blockquote>

I wasn't aware they had blown one yet. which generation are you refering to?


Bloke

I too hate that PAG is not competing at the top level of the sport. Since they got BMW legislated out of GT, the class is basically an expensive Cupcar series.

You're abolutely right that everybody has an SUV at this point. And maybe PAG IS too late in this. But all the high end makers are still selling every one they make.

Mike

bloke

We have no brand name in SUV. Plus how many are they actually going to sell in germany.(GOOD LUCK).

Well at this pt. why dont porsche just make a deal with VW and get bought and start selling 500hps VW golfs. Great i can wait to start buying VW porshce. Come get them at the dealer near you.

Mike in Chi

ked

Given the years spent developing the 911, perhaps it is best that Porsche's "new 911" not be named a 911 at all. The 911 concept as an engineering platform may be "beyond maturity". Yet the brand value is almost inestimable, confirmed by the emotional investment that these posts reveal.

As to SONY, they have been very successful extending their brand & price-range w/o sacrificing product quality & image. Perhaps some aren't aware of their professional (& expensive!) products. Same w/ their TVs & monitors. Dolby is similar, Dolby's name is on $50 products, yet they supply very expensive & high end systems to the professional recording industry.

Choose examples carefully, sometimes they prove the opposite of your point.

bloke

kevin,

i think you are taking the sony comment out of context. yes even porsche has a high end like the new GT(whenever it comes out, GT2 and etc. But the only reason why they develop the new GT and a great example is 959 is to enhance the brand of porsche. The 959 was developed and sold at a lost so use regular driving 911 owner can feel good about their cars.

But, if you are telling me developing an SUV is no way delutes the brand name of porsche then you and i have a difference of opinion in a major way.

Also, regarding sony! you are telling me if you had 10k grand and want a new stereo you going to buy a sony product(PLEASE). mabye a cd player at best.

Lets just say even Ford can make a kick *** car for a 100k but i wouldnt buy one for one reason. It doenst give me pride to drive it. The name of porsche should bring pride into their owners and that comes from hertiage and seeing a SUV with a porsche tag isnt going to cut it.

Mike in Chi

Bloke

the point with the Sony analogy was not that their products equal porsches products, but that you can build and extend brand equity beyond a narrow portion of a given category.

It happens in categories from inexpensive package goods all the way up to ultra-expensive, image-driven products.

As long as it's performance based, and Porsche races it successfully, I think they can succeed at it. The 959 in Paris Dakkar, the Monte Carlo Rally victories are bridges, and I think that's why PAG is exploiting them.

They have so much cash right now, they may be able to even survive a complete failure, but I'm thinking they will pull it off.

I don't think Bill Hodges is blowing smoke at us, when he talks about how impressed he is with it.

And if it really does outperform a Carrera, as the magazine reported, imagine!

Mike

ked

Since the 959 experience, I think Porsche has insisted that all it's products make "appropriate margin" - that's why the very high perf. niche (competition) cars are now priced so high.

What I see about the SUV & the various pre-release reactions to it, is that it is a different aspect of the Porsche brand. I suppose everyone who comes to "personally own" the Porsche brand based upon a sports car-only view of Porsche's history sees the 4WD, Artillery & AFV designs by Dr. Ferdinand as a sideshow. I don't.

I will judge the meaning & value of the Cayenne on its own merits as a machine, the same standard I used when I drove my first Porsche in 1968 (356B).
If it is a good machine & a successful product, I expect it to "increase the size of the pie" for PAG, & therby meet Roschpe's demand for funds & staff resources to design & build a proper next 911.

Really, who cares about Branding or the "meaning" of the Cayenne IF the outcome supports a better future 911-like product?

$10K is on the borderline of truly "hi-end" audio these days (not even including Audio-Video Home Entertainment). One could select $10K worth of SONY product and get a system worthy of listening to and critcally comparing to other $10K sytems. Most of us have never seen these SONY products, they aren't distributed to the same channels as the consumer-grade (Best Buys) product. Much of it is kept in their home market, Americans just won't buy SONY products that don't fit their pre-conceived image.

Kinda like how some Porsche owners will never buy a Cayenne, no matter what.