Palting

Just got done with my first autocross. Actually, it was more of an autocross clinic than a true competitive autocross. I figured I've been doing quite a bit of DE, have been getting fairly good at it , heh-heh-he, and I should broaden my experience a bit. Here are a few impressions.

1. I suck at it! I'm too brusque, no smoothness to speak of, and I plan the car placement several cones too late. But, man, it's a ton of FUN!!!! I DID generate enough G's consistently that my Brake Fluid Level warning light comes on at the slaloms.

2. The C4S behaves very differently at low speed than at high speed. When the limit is exceeded, it plows like the dickens, and its very tough to recover. Impression number 1 may have a lot to do with it.

3. The gas pedal is your friend. PSM off, lift, whip that butt around, then plant those fat tires and blast towards the next gate. The autocross is an excellent place to learn throttle steering. Just have to be smoother.

4. A tip may actually be better in autocross. Egad, I can't believe I said that.

5. All Porsche people are cool. Everyone had giant smiles, eager to have fun, and eager to make sure you are having as much fun as they are. I have yet to encounter a grump at a car event.

5. Did I mention it's a ton of FUN? <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

Waz996

Makes me drewl in envy!

Waz

Palting

It's not hard to set up, Waz. All you need is a couple of cones and a large open paved lot and some friends/competitors with timers. It's very simillar to the old style parking lot shenanigans, except that there is now a serpentine course you have to traverse, and you actually have practice good performance driving skill to traverse it well. It's also a good way to find out about losing control, since the only thing that happens is that you take out a couple of cones. You do learn from that experience, and can better predict the limit. Actually, if you do lose control and spin out, you usually get a standing ovation, heh-heh-heh.

Carlos from Spain

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Palting:
<strong> Actually, if you do lose control and spin out, you usually get a standing ovation, heh-heh-heh.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Or even worse, the regional TV could be there tapping for a their show about cars and you could be the "lucky" one thats spinning out just when they are tapping!!... yes it happened to me <img border="0" alt="[icon107]" title="" src="graemlins/icon107.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Scott_in_Houston

Cool! Do you have video? I'd love to see that.

KWC4S

palting, thanks. i've been wondering how the C4S would behave in an Autocross. When you say "plows", you mean ?????

slodrivingmike

Palting,

So would you do autox again? I do a lot of DE and have been on autox-like courses during a BMW CCA car control clinic and at the Skip Barber Racing School. It can enhance your track driving, but I'm told there is an awful lot of waiting around between very short runs. By the way, I learned at the above to look way ahead. It is hard to get used to looking out the side windows rather than the windshield.
Regards,
Mike

Palting

Sorry, Scott. I didn't bring my camera. I'm going to do it again, though, and I'll definitely bring the camera.

P-Zen, when I say plows, it severely oversteers and just goes straight. If you go in too hot to a corner and crank the wheel, nothing happens!!! You can brake, lift, modulate, floor it.....it still just goes relatively straight. I kinda envied the 944's, with puny little 4 cylnders, doing power oversteers!! (Nothing derogatory, I said I envied them). I found I had to brake, release, turn, then brake again to bring the back end out, then gas to plant the back when the car is pointed right. This got me the best times. PSM has to be off, otherwise either the back end won't come loose, or, if it does come loose, the gas pedal won't work. Of course, the problem is consistensy, smoothness, and timing, to get it all right. All in fractions of a second, multiple times in one run. Man, that's hard!!!

Mike, the waiting time all depends on the number of participants, the course, and the timing gear. They can run several cars simultaneously if the course is right and you have the capability of running multiple timers. We were running two staggered cars on the course at a time, and waiting seemed forever but was only about 10 minutes for runs that go about a minute for the good driver/cars. I'm definitely doing it again, and this time competitively. We are doing a series of 6 races, wirth the prize for each class winner a set of track tires, and I'm in the novice class .

Waz996

Palting,

We had an autocross on Sunday i have videos but i have to edit them.. T'was with some guys in a big parking area, we put tyres and did the circles..

Problem is that i lost my sets of tyres, brand new.. now they've peeled off completely and there are none in this country! I think i got carried away doing donuts and figure 8's..

Good news is Pcar timed best lap amongst all others.. Well, what do you expect, am driving it!

Waz

KWC4S

palting, you mean "understeers" and just goes straight. yes?

from earlier posts it seems that there's lots of disagreement as to how the C4S understeer is to be corrected. i always welcome more insight into that.

thanks

Waz996

Understeer is much more evident, like really much more evident, when you autocross.. It's really a strange behaviour compared to the understeer I am used to on the streets..

I didnt have the time to really get over it..

Waz

Carlos from Spain

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Scott_in_Houston:
<strong>Cool! Do you have video? I'd love to see that. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Nope, but it wasn't in my 996, it was trying out a Boxster S... more oversteer than I'm used to... <img border="0" alt="[ouch]" title="" src="graemlins/c.gif" />

NetManiac

I know it's probably way different, but my Boxster understeers a lot too. At my last AX I finally got to a point where I could correct it and keep from loosing a ton of time. I would lift just a little to take some of the weight off the front tires, at the same time turn the wheel back (straight) just barely so they would get a some bite. Once the fronts have bite again I would smoothly turn them back into the turn. It feels really weird since it is absolutely NOT what intuition tells you to do (I'm not turning, so turn the wheel more!). But it worked. I was amazed at how well it did the trick and at how few cones I killed in the process (I stayed on the track when I felt certain straightening the wheel would send me off).

Anyway, like I said, I'm not sure the C4S will behave the same given the same conditions. Just thought I would tell you what has worked for me.

/net

MJones

Your severe understeer in in part due to the fact that you are coming into the corner TOO hot, exceeding the limits of the fiction circle when in fact you most likely should be braking harder earlier to set up for the corner.

Its about being S M O O T H and looking where you want to go.

May I suggest that you consider doing the Porsche Driving Experience and what I've just written will become crystal clear.

Also a good driver with PSM on will wip your butt, the throtle steer you mention is not forward momentum= slower.

Another trick, imagine a string from the bottom of the steering wheel to the accellerator pedal. Only when the wheel is straight is full throtle allowed. ie: As you unwind the wheel it allows for more throtle

John Murray

Hello all, great thread!

I feel obligated to say a few things. Palting, when a car plows(turn wheel and car wants to go straight) that is called UNDERsteer, not oversteer as you stated. I know you know this, but when I was re-reading the post 5 or 6 times, something didnt look right. Glad you had fun. Autocross is a blast, but it sure is a lot of waiting around for not a lot of driving time. This is why I have started to concentrate on DE events. I will also say that I learned how to drive at Autocross. Because it is so quick, you are forced to learn a lot in a short period of time.

NetManiac, when you lift off of the throttle, weight will ALWAYS be added to the front. Always. You are experiencing understeer. When the weight is transferred to the front by lifting off of the throttle, the tires will gain some traction. At that point, once the tires grip, you can start to squeeze back on the throttle. Imagine a string tied to the gas pedal and the bottom of the steering wheel. When the wheel is turned, the string pulls the gas pedal back up. As you straighten out the wheel the throttle can be pushed down at a proportionate level.

Hope this wasnt too confusing....

Good Luck all!