mitch236

I wasn't trying to make the claim that every case was due to my above suggestion, just that many of them probably are.

I am sorry that you had a bad experience. Every auto manufacturer suffers from the occasional glitch. I find it hard to believe that Porsche would continue to manufacture an engine that has a serious design flaw when they already have other engines to choose from. And they don't keep many parts on hand so you can't say that they are still clearing their inventory.

bobporsche996

you honestly think that many 996 c2 and c4 drivers have upgraded the performance of their vehicle? come now, that number can't be higher than 1-2%.. how many rennlisters, major enthusiasts, even have an ECU or mechanical upgrade of any kind? and what amount of private, third party dealers even think, let alone, do any kind of research on the vehicle to disqualify it.. maybe 1-2%? porsche, yes, that's one thing.. but i'm talking about the 98% of other cars not purchased at a porsche dealer... if anything, they will band-aid it and give it to another "less" than trustworthy dealer, who will put it up for sale if anything appears wrong upon inspection that could backlash most al of the time..

for other model years, yes.. but the 996 was the first porsche for the masses bought by yuppies and businessmen primarily that don't know the first thing about tracking a car.. alot can be told by the inner appointments as well.. for example, my car was a cab, with burlwood interior and full leather.. what are the odds of it being a track car? and even if it was, what would result in a rod coming through the block randomly when driving at 65mph on cruise control? trying to justify "why" certain engine fails is as big a mystery as how many have failed.. we just don't know..

that's why i'm asking.. some people blame "bad break-ins" as the culprate, others have other reasons.. if bad-breakins are the cause of engine failure, then potentially that may help future owners out.. yet when p-car advocates are saying.. drive "soft" or you will ruin the engine.. or drive 'hard" or you will ruin the engine... (during break-in) it leaves quite a contradicting statement to those concerned about their vehicle..

in terms of the belief about porsche continuing to produce engines that are prone to failure.. just look at RMS.. it's a big issue, BUT it's a cheap one.. and what does porsche do? put the same engine in the 997 that caused RMS.. so the statement about porsche not fixing the problem if it was such an epidemic is left at a pure example with RMS.. while 45% of people in the polls reported RMS, I think that number is highly skewed, it does give indiction that RMS "is" an issue, and that the engine was manufactured off-spec to cause this.. thus, a non perfect working engine.. while the consequences of rms are negligble.. porsche obviously didn't care enough to do anything about it with the 997 and put the same thing in there, with the same problems.. all in the name of saving more money to line the execs pockets..

so if porsche doesn't care or even offer a free replacement for RMS, why would they spend hundreds of millions developing a new engine to fix "known" problems..? they wouldn't, they haven't, they didn't, and they don't... otherwise the 997 wouldn't still have RMS..

my vehicle has had it's issues, but i'm still concerned about getting down to the root of the problem to the best i can.. while yes my porsche is for sale.. it will not be the end of the situation for me.. like with joe, i have future plans, but am not going to discuss them in this forum...

what this comes down to, is the whole situation changes when you just bought a brand new $110,000 C4S and your engine needs to be replaced at 4,000 miles.. personally that didn't happen to me, but i'd be a pretty upset owner... knowing that my brand new $110,000 car just took a sh*t on me.. and i'd never trust it again.. even if porsche does pay for it..

and having to pay out of pocket, when the porsche dealer says "it was an internal failure.. nothing you or anyone else did could have caused or prevented it" and then gives you a bill.. you are damn right, you have some upset people... put yourself in these peoples shoes..

porsche outweights the diminished customer return with the cost... pure economics, and obviously for them, they make more money making the customers pay for their faults, than them, even if they lose them for a lifetime.. hell they are making more money than they ever have in their lives.. why make huge changes because of a few thousand upset customers, i'm sure they have equated...

all i can say is, the feeling changes when one is betrayed by the car company they loved as a child, that they trusted, and believed in.. when they get treated like crap when a catastrophic failure happens.. it's more than monetary for some.. it's just a plain feeling of being let down by their childhood marque icon.. for all those that had the red turbo speedster on their wall in the 80s.. and then being sh*t on.. by the marque they once loved..

porsche isn't the same, and never will be, which is a damn shame..

but just like anything in life, one can't relate until they go through it themselves...

Larry Harris

I was cruzing through the 987 forums earlier. There is an idiot who wanted to know if redling his car in first gear and driving at 6000 rpms for a considerable period of time/distance (no load situation) would be harmful to his engine!!
He has accumulated over 350 miles driving in this manner. He says he likes the engine sound at 6000 rpms. I sometimes wonder how people like that function in society.

munro86

They don't.

Bob Rouleau

Bobporsche - while we know that some engines have failed due to some defect or other, Porsche replaced those engines. Some engines might fail due to abuse - see the post above. There are a lot of ways to kill an engine - no oil, miss a downshift and hit 1st instead of 5th for instance. The ECU records these events and makes it pretty easy to determine if a failure is due to a defect or a mistake by the driver.

You made a good point in your post above, many of the people buying the 996 and 997 are new to the brand. Perhaps coming over from an automatic MB or Jag. This makes me wonder if a certain percentage of them have 'oops' resulting in damage. Elsewhere there is a post about a guy who is upset because he bought a CPO car and had to replace the clutch after 300 miles. Neither driver could drive a manual tranny.

bobporsche996

Bob,

you say that "porsche" replaced those engines.. but what happens when an engine goes out and porsche does replace them, and then it goes out again after the warranty period? Or what about garage queens? Like that 99 that has 6k miles on it that was for sale.. what's a sufficient amount of time to say when or if the defective engines have or haven't gone out, and if the replacement is going to go out either? that is the question.. my replacement had 8k miles on it and it went out on me, and that was from a remanned engine from '04 sent from germany..

Joe2000C4Cab

Please, oh pluuuuuueeeze some one shoot me or this thread!!!

[Disclaimer: I understand all sides being presented here, I just think it's been beaten to death!]

fast1

bobporsche996:

After reading the posts on this forum for the past couple of years, I'm impressed with the loyalty that Porsche owners have for the marque. The willingness of Porsche owners to dismiss serious design issues like RMS or to rationalize blown engines is truly amazing. Nevertheless, I believe even the emotional attachment that many Porsche owners have to the marque has its limits. Either Porsche will engineer fixes that prevent a recurrence of many of the 996 problems or even the most loyal Porsche owners will look elsewhere. In other words market forces will prevail.

Although the 997 has been out for less than two years, early signs regarding Porsche quality are very encouraging. Let's hope this trend continues.

LVDell

Time for you to go Bob. As the starter of this thread I think I can close it. Find someplace else to regurgitate your tiresome, beat to death, crap.