karlooz

if you don't sell it it will never depreciate. if you carry this notion forward and add/mod it then it only increases in amount spent.

i spent 38K when i bought it and added 12K in mods so it's now worth 50K . it's like buying new for 70K and adding 10K in options so now it's worth 80K

if you sell it it will only be worth as much as someone wants to pay for it so DON'T SELL IT

ScottS

Opinions aside there are tools to quantify the cost of ownership. Give these a try
http://www.edmunds.com/advice/buying...9/article.html

From that
New Car Ownership Used Car Ownership Lease Car
Adjusted Total Adjusted Total Adjusted Total
Cash out-of-pocket $32,388 $18,390 $32,140

Value of the car now owned $7,000 $2,000 $0

Adjusted cash out-of-pocket $25,388 $16,390 $32,140

Conclusions

Now we see that leasing becomes the most expensive way to drive — in the long run. Here's how leasing compares to the two ownership scenarios:

Leasing vs. Buying New — Using the figures presented in this article, it is $6,752 more to lease a new car over a five-year period, than it is to buy the same car outright. This breaks down to $1,350 more per year to lease rather than to buy a new car.

Leasing vs. Buying Used — It is $15,750 more to lease a new car over a five-year period than it is to buy and operate a used car for the same amount of time. This is an additional yearly cost of $3,150.

Buying Used vs. Buying New — Not surprisingly, it costs a lot less to buy and drive a used car over a five-year period than a new car. In this example, it is $8,998 less for five years or $1,799 less per year.

The figures we've presented here indicate that buying a car — whether it is new or used — is more economical than leasing a car. However, some people might point out that, while driving a used car costs less, the pleasure of driving an older car is lower, too. To be fair, you can't put a dollar value on the fun of driving a new car. As we said before, the benefits of new/leased/used vehicles can be argued many different ways. The purpose of this article was to look at the numbers involved in typical examples and let the figures speak for themselves.

According to this analysis, buying used is the least costly of ownership b/w buying new, leasing new and buying used. The assumptions in this model are that you keep buying new. Now if you keep driving your own car ( new or used) you win. Period. Thing is, most of us keep buying.

Question- why do we buy new cars- answer either 1) Because they make them or 2 ) BECAUSE WE CAN.
That simple. Depreciation issues aside the disproportionate amount of market value lost for the first one to two years for 7-14% of the cars useful lifespan ( assume noncollector car, daily driver 10-15 year reasonable use and 100-140K mile for todays cars). 3 years old- 54-60 % of value.

BTW Porsche value ranked high but ask the 996 owners who traded or sold- it hurts. And the new buyers of these preowned cars- check the boards for engine failure. My only point is the market is smarter than we think. I bought a 1987 928 ten years ago for a bargain. Then the maintenance hit. There was a reason the car did not hold its value- the relative probability of needing expensive work devalued the car by a proportionate amount to the the likelihood of it happening multiplied by the buying publics perception of the likeliehood of it happening ( think audi 5000 acceleration issues- I owned three Audi coupes, never a hiccup).

So check the article out. I think it is clear that buying used makes finacial sense but that doesn't have to rule our existence. But seriously don't kid yourself. The new car smell- very bloody expensive when bought at the dealer. Very inexpensive at the carwash.
BBTW C4S first allocation NEW
Cayenne S- Second model year New
2000 Range Rover Used. For Sale
2006 Range Rover Lease. For Her

lowside67

BEST LOGIC EVER.

fast1

The figures we've presented here indicate that buying a car — whether it is new or used — is more economical than leasing a car.

Scott - Thanks for posting the article. I agree that leasing is a much worse financial deal than buying for the vast majority of people, but of course there are exceptions. The biggest variable that the article doesn't address is the lost opportunity for the money outlayed for a car purchase. If I pay $100K for my 997, how much money could I have earned on that $100K in three years?

To me buying a Porsche is a lot like buying an expensive bottle of wine. If a wine connoisseur pays $1K for a bottle of French wine, I don't think he's going to be concerned about how much each sip costs. And if he does, he's bought the wrong wine. The same applies to buying a Porsche. If you are concerned about price and value, a Toyota Camry is the car for you.

JimB

There are currently two cars similar to mine in Rennlist classifieds. Brian Baileys at $85k and some other 996 race car for $68. Brian's car is better in some ways. Mine is better in some ways. The 68k 996 isn't even close. Does this make my car worth $75k. Not until I sell it for that amount but I sure wish Brian luck.

Mostly I was sort of poking fun at a thread on Porsches and money management. They don't belong in the same sentence. In my opinion, unless you have money to throw away, you shouldn't race, gamble or buy a sportscar. Just my opinion.
Jim

nycebo

Not completely true. There are measures that can objectively be used to price a 996 at a higher cost than a Camry. Handling. Power. Torque. Speed. Etc. Everyone values the cost of these objective measures in their own way. Clearly, MOST people buy Camrys and Accords (according to sales records). They do that because it IS more economical. But, Porsche has priced the market correctly for NEW cars because many people buy their cars, too.

The NEW vs. USED debate is simply an argument over the uncertainty of what MIGHT have happened to the car while not under your control. For some people, this is a requirement; for others, it is not a big deal, particularly when factoring in the cost savings. Clearly, if everyone was completely satisfied that all used Porsches were babied during their prior life, then the price for the used car would be even higher.

Now here's the interesting thing: While new Porsches do take a considerable hit in years one and two from depreciation (like all premium and luxury cars because these buys CAN afford to buy new; read, when you make $1,000,000/yr, then many don't care if the car is $50k or $100k?), what really distinguished Porsches is that their buyers are passionate. Used car depreciation from year 2 on is very modest. Indeed, I suspect that driving the car from year 3 to year 8 is probably cheaper than any other car (maintenance issues and RMS conflicts aside). The reason is because the car inspires PASSION instead of just UTILITY. And like Shakespeare almost said, "What price to be had for passion?" Pcar owners are an ornery and red-blooded bunch. If practicality were really an ISSUE, we'd be having this conversation in the Camry forum (seriously, while it's not my taste, those cars are inexpensive and bullet-proof).

So getting back to the point, buying a Porsche is NOT throwing money away. Buying a Camry for most of us and living a life of NO excitement would be living a life wasted. As they say, you don't get a second chance to do it right. And before any of you go nuts and say that buying a Porsche at the expense of your kid's medicine is wrong, I know, I know...but still....

ScottS

In response- the tools of analysis posted include both depreciation and future value of money adjustment. Opportunity cost of the purchase monies? Come on. That makes little fiscal sense. Assuming an unrealistic return TAXFREE you will not make up for the cost of the money on a lease. Because the minimum actual interest rate is closer to 8-10% check this link for the true interest rate of leases
http://www.smartmoney.com/autos/leas...ory=ccinterest

Assuming a purchase price of 81400, no down payment and 36 month term, the porsche calculator sums 1386/month for 36 month lease 12k miles per year. Calculated basic interest rate 6.9 % Net interest rate about 9%. POST TAX.

I do agree that leasing with a dedection or leasing in general leaves one more liquid and provides a higher purchase price car at a lower monthly payment. All valid agruements in the choice debate but not fiscal arguments.

Now about that wine. I'll take a case of La Tache Burgundy 1992 or earlier. Make it three. Because that's the difference between leasing/ buying used. So does the La Tache taste better at The French Laundry? No but it costs four times as much. Is their caviar and sake gratinee better than my wifes? Dunno . I concede that the wine experience may be enhanced by the food , elegant atmosphere and friends. I also concede that this enhancement may be worth the difference. That's personal choice of resource utlization. No one is right or wrong. Just their choice.

So the two arguements: opportunity cost of money ( borrowing at a higher interest rate to make money with a hypothetical marginal beneift with the money you would have used) and the "I buy it to enjoy the experience "are at odds. One is for income opportunity driven and the other is hedonistic.

I agree with the fine experience but that's was not the question posed. It was which is more costly. BTW the used car purchaser misses the experience of one to two years ownership on the front end. Buying new vgives you additionally, to large extent, the break in period. By the third year, we have the same wine. Only mine costs less.( In Pcars I bought new because I can but I won't buy an ordinary new car new any longer)

In terms of money, racecars and gambling- You left out womanizing. And what does that leave? reading? surfing the internet?

Just the facts. I mean why let the facts get in the way of a good opinion?

fast1

In response- the tools of analysis posted include both depreciation and future value of money adjustment. Opportunity cost of the purchase monies? Come on. That makes little fiscal sense. Assuming an unrealistic return TAXFREE you will not make up for the cost of the money on a lease. Because the minimum actual interest rate is closer to 8-10% check this link for the true interest rate of leases
http://www.smartmoney.com/autos/lea...tory=ccinterest

Scott - I am not a lease advocate and I have never leased a car. There are those who own businesses who make the case that leasing makes the most sense, since they are able to write off 100% of their leasing expenses. When the leasing monthly payments plus other leasing fees approach $50K for three years for a $80K car, I know there has to be a better way.

infestation

I've put over 25,000 miles on my 997s launch car now, and just for interest's sake, I asked my dealer what it would be worth on trade: $58,000.00. That's 42% depreciation in a year and a half since I bought it.

At the end of the day, I would get the car you want with the options you want, and I would just drive it and enjoy it, whether used or new.

fast1

I wonder how much money he would give you if you just sold the car to him instead of a trade. More than likey a lot less.

leedav

Bought new. Paid cash. Never looked back. Love my car.

mdrobc1213

Thanks to all the new p-car buyers out there as well. Sometime other choices to be made with our hard earned and not so hard earned $$$ force a few of us to make more practical and economical (for us) decision in the p-car buying process. Its all an individual decision so that $5k - $50k spent by over and above or saved by one owner may be put to better use by another and vice versa.

But what we all do love is the driving experience and our cars. So I say raise a class and give a cheer to the 996! https://rennlist.com/forums/newreply.php
Cheers