Type 2 over rev values and warranty
02-15-2005, 03:00 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
It occurrs to me that many of the Cayenne warrantee issues may be related to the sophisticated suspension and drivetrain technologies designed for off road use.
The irony is the average owner does not *really* drive their Cayenne off road and therefore doesn't even begin to exploit these technologies, so both Porsche and average Cayenne owner would be better off without the complex systems!!!
The irony is the average owner does not *really* drive their Cayenne off road and therefore doesn't even begin to exploit these technologies, so both Porsche and average Cayenne owner would be better off without the complex systems!!!
02-15-2005, 03:28 PM
#62
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Cupcar,
Interesting observation regarding offroad use.
My local dealer told me that 50% of the Cayennes are ordered with the factory tow package, yet less than 10 % of those ever tow anything.
(I'm in the minority as the Cayenne is my tow vehicle....unless my bride lets me use her Excursion)
I wonder how Porsche would react to a 'towing related' warranty claim; perhaps they would say I towed TOO much with the Cayenne.
Interesting observation regarding offroad use.
My local dealer told me that 50% of the Cayennes are ordered with the factory tow package, yet less than 10 % of those ever tow anything.
(I'm in the minority as the Cayenne is my tow vehicle....unless my bride lets me use her Excursion)
I wonder how Porsche would react to a 'towing related' warranty claim; perhaps they would say I towed TOO much with the Cayenne.
02-15-2005, 08:55 PM
#64
Three Wheelin'
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Originally Posted by Cupcar
It occurrs to me that many of the Cayenne warrantee issues may be related to the sophisticated suspension and drivetrain technologies designed for off road use.
The irony is the average owner does not *really* drive their Cayenne off road and therefore doesn't even begin to exploit these technologies, so both Porsche and average Cayenne owner would be better off without the complex systems!!!
The irony is the average owner does not *really* drive their Cayenne off road and therefore doesn't even begin to exploit these technologies, so both Porsche and average Cayenne owner would be better off without the complex systems!!!
Lewis is right & so are you regarding owners who tow oroff road. Treg had a hugh screw up upon launch. They had the Treg tow a house trailer (to market to that crowd) and the narrater said it was a better idea. A guy bought a Treg to tow that exact trailer. Problem was it had an 800 lb tongue load (150lb overload) and the auto leveling device put the guy all over the road (it couldn't level the car.) He sued & VW made a CBS award for stupidity.. He got his $ back, quickly.
02-15-2005, 11:04 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
Self-leveling suspension for towing doesn't work well on my Lexus LX470 either, but does on our company Denali.
Here's a paraphrase of something I read.
"Ethical advertising is using the truth to mislead your customers,
Unethical advertising is using lies to mislead your customers" Between track use and towing, where do you think PCNA stands?
Here's a paraphrase of something I read.
"Ethical advertising is using the truth to mislead your customers,
Unethical advertising is using lies to mislead your customers" Between track use and towing, where do you think PCNA stands?
02-16-2005, 12:35 PM
#66
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I'VE READ ALL 5 PAGES HERE AND HAVEN'T SEEN THE ONE QUESTION THAT WOULD MAKE THE DECISION IN MY MIND AS TO WHETHER THIS WAS A WARRANTY ISSUE OR NOT.WAS THE CAR SMOKING BEFORE OR AFTER THE AUTO-X EVENT?(IF IT WAS SMOKING BEFORE MY NEXT QUESTION WOULD BE WHY TAKE IT TO THE EVENT WHEN THERE WAS AN OBVIOUS ISSUE?) JUST PUTTING IN MY 2 CENTS.
02-16-2005, 12:55 PM
#67
Race Car
My 2 cents is what arrogance it is for you to expect a company to pay for parts and sevices when the car was used in a way that it was not designed for. If you want to play, you have to pay. So I guess if you wanted to use your car for offroading, you would expect Porsche to pay any repair bills? When you commit your car to the track, you have waived you right for some warranty coverage from Porsche. Obviously it depends on your relationship with the dealer.
Porsche specifically staes in their warranty policy: "Warranty does not cover abuse, accident, acts of God, competition, racing or track use". So unless you cannot read, you voluntarily chose to void your warranty.
Stop looking for someone else to pay for your mistakes and get on with your life.
Ahhh.soooo provacative.
Porsche specifically staes in their warranty policy: "Warranty does not cover abuse, accident, acts of God, competition, racing or track use". So unless you cannot read, you voluntarily chose to void your warranty.
Stop looking for someone else to pay for your mistakes and get on with your life.
Ahhh.soooo provacative.
02-16-2005, 01:46 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
I think it would be easier and cheaper simply to say your DME was stolen, get a new one, and use the old one for tracking. Put the new one in for regular driving.
__________________
1999 Artic Silver C2 Supercharged
20% SSK
GT3 Aero Kit
Full Leather Interior
Last week, we had the suggestion of gaming the system by swapping out DME's. This week, we are very holy. The point is that this type of driving is the purpose for which the cars were intended. At the time of purchase, no dealer has said, "under no circumstances take your car to an autocross". In fact, my dealer has always encouraged it. No poster has said that a huge driver error should be fully covered by warranty. However, I do feel that every Porsche owner I know expects their car to be track-worthy, and anticipates the possibility of exploring that at some future time. If you downshift under braking, sooner or later you will wind up over the redline. (Only a paddle shifter or full auto can avoid this.) Hopefully not by much and not often. But if even one Type 2 voids a warranty, nobody can learn the limits of the car with warranty coverage.
Automobile passion is not about common sense. Common sense dictates "Don't try to take your car to the track, don't learn to downshift under hard braking, don't learn the limits of your car, because one mistake voids your warranty" That isn't what caused me to buy 5 Porsches. It will cause me not to buy another Porsche sports car. Abuse is far different than enthusiastic driving. Some are being penalized for the latter. AS
__________________
1999 Artic Silver C2 Supercharged
20% SSK
GT3 Aero Kit
Full Leather Interior
Last week, we had the suggestion of gaming the system by swapping out DME's. This week, we are very holy. The point is that this type of driving is the purpose for which the cars were intended. At the time of purchase, no dealer has said, "under no circumstances take your car to an autocross". In fact, my dealer has always encouraged it. No poster has said that a huge driver error should be fully covered by warranty. However, I do feel that every Porsche owner I know expects their car to be track-worthy, and anticipates the possibility of exploring that at some future time. If you downshift under braking, sooner or later you will wind up over the redline. (Only a paddle shifter or full auto can avoid this.) Hopefully not by much and not often. But if even one Type 2 voids a warranty, nobody can learn the limits of the car with warranty coverage.
Automobile passion is not about common sense. Common sense dictates "Don't try to take your car to the track, don't learn to downshift under hard braking, don't learn the limits of your car, because one mistake voids your warranty" That isn't what caused me to buy 5 Porsches. It will cause me not to buy another Porsche sports car. Abuse is far different than enthusiastic driving. Some are being penalized for the latter. AS
02-16-2005, 01:49 PM
#69
Let's reiterate - the 'friend' in question is not asking for warranty repairs and/or service; he's asking PCNA to buy his car back, presumeably w/ no usage fees (after all, the car's obviously been unusable and parked due to these catastrophic oil leaks & exhaust smoke).
Sounds fair & reasonable to me...
Sounds fair & reasonable to me...
02-16-2005, 01:59 PM
#70
Race Car
Originally Posted by Alexander Stemer
I think it would be easier and cheaper simply to say your DME was stolen, get a new one, and use the old one for tracking. Put the new one in for regular driving.
__________________
1999 Artic Silver C2 Supercharged
20% SSK
GT3 Aero Kit
Full Leather Interior
Last week, we had the suggestion of gaming the system by swapping out DME's. This week, we are very holy. The point is that this type of driving is the purpose for which the cars were intended. At the time of purchase, no dealer has said, "under no circumstances take your car to an autocross". In fact, my dealer has always encouraged it. No poster has said that a huge driver error should be fully covered by warranty. However, I do feel that every Porsche owner I know expects their car to be track-worthy, and anticipates the possibility of exploring that at some future time. If you downshift under braking, sooner or later you will wind up over the redline. (Only a paddle shifter or full auto can avoid this.) Hopefully not by much and not often. But if even one Type 2 voids a warranty, nobody can learn the limits of the car with warranty coverage.
Automobile passion is not about common sense. Common sense dictates "Don't try to take your car to the track, don't learn to downshift under hard braking, don't learn the limits of your car, because one mistake voids your warranty" That isn't what caused me to buy 5 Porsches. It will cause me not to buy another Porsche sports car. Abuse is far different than enthusiastic driving. Some are being penalized for the latter. AS
__________________
1999 Artic Silver C2 Supercharged
20% SSK
GT3 Aero Kit
Full Leather Interior
Last week, we had the suggestion of gaming the system by swapping out DME's. This week, we are very holy. The point is that this type of driving is the purpose for which the cars were intended. At the time of purchase, no dealer has said, "under no circumstances take your car to an autocross". In fact, my dealer has always encouraged it. No poster has said that a huge driver error should be fully covered by warranty. However, I do feel that every Porsche owner I know expects their car to be track-worthy, and anticipates the possibility of exploring that at some future time. If you downshift under braking, sooner or later you will wind up over the redline. (Only a paddle shifter or full auto can avoid this.) Hopefully not by much and not often. But if even one Type 2 voids a warranty, nobody can learn the limits of the car with warranty coverage.
Automobile passion is not about common sense. Common sense dictates "Don't try to take your car to the track, don't learn to downshift under hard braking, don't learn the limits of your car, because one mistake voids your warranty" That isn't what caused me to buy 5 Porsches. It will cause me not to buy another Porsche sports car. Abuse is far different than enthusiastic driving. Some are being penalized for the latter. AS
Then buy another car. Every car manufacturer specifically states the same things that will void warranty. I am not without sympothy for those who track there cars and have a totally unrelated probelms that is not covered by waranty. However, Porsche specifically told them that if they take their car to the track, do not expect us to pay to repair any probelms you have. They can't be any more specific then that, can they? If you choose to under insure your car for accident coverage and total your car, are you going to run to the insurance company crying that they have to pay beyond your limits?
I suggest you also read your insurance policy as most specifically void coverage for track use and a policy specific to the use of the car needs to be purchased.
A
02-16-2005, 05:15 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
Porsche, thru its sales staff did not say, "if they take their car to the track, do not expect us to pay to repair any probelms you have". Every time I have been in the showroom, the discussion is about taking the car to the track, the next track day available, and taking the car to DE events. Recall, no customer gets the warranty book until after the car is delivered. Sure, you can ask for it before, but after you've bought previous Porsches, and it's been the mantra of the company to track, it's not anything most buyers will do. In reality, this change of heart occurred after many had purchased their cars, and while these cars were under warranty. It coincided with PCCB failure to withstand the very use for which it was intended.
When the ads depict cars on tracks, when PCCB's are sold as race proven, and the entire identity of the car is tied up in images of tracks and competition, it is somewhat disengenuous to hide the disclaimer within the warranty. The unfortunate fact is that the cars are no longer engineered or built to withstand the rigors for which they are touted. As I said, it will cause me to buy another car, probably a ZO6, when the spirit moves me. I hope that same spirit moves enough other enthusuasts so that Porsche reevaluates its position, engineers in the durability now missing to withstand high-performance use, and adds back value so we are rewarded with more than just mystique.
99/996, I guess you don't care to explain why it was acceptable to suggest DME duplicity in one post, and then get very holy with "My 2 cents is what arrogance it is for you to expect a company to pay for parts and sevices when the car was used in a way that it was not designed for. If you want to play, you have to pay". Should not common sense suggest that the latter post contradicts the prior? So, was it hypocritical or just an absence of common sense on your part? AS
When the ads depict cars on tracks, when PCCB's are sold as race proven, and the entire identity of the car is tied up in images of tracks and competition, it is somewhat disengenuous to hide the disclaimer within the warranty. The unfortunate fact is that the cars are no longer engineered or built to withstand the rigors for which they are touted. As I said, it will cause me to buy another car, probably a ZO6, when the spirit moves me. I hope that same spirit moves enough other enthusuasts so that Porsche reevaluates its position, engineers in the durability now missing to withstand high-performance use, and adds back value so we are rewarded with more than just mystique.
99/996, I guess you don't care to explain why it was acceptable to suggest DME duplicity in one post, and then get very holy with "My 2 cents is what arrogance it is for you to expect a company to pay for parts and sevices when the car was used in a way that it was not designed for. If you want to play, you have to pay". Should not common sense suggest that the latter post contradicts the prior? So, was it hypocritical or just an absence of common sense on your part? AS
02-16-2005, 05:29 PM
#72
Race Car
Originally Posted by Alexander Stemer
Porsche, thru its sales staff did not say, "if they take their car to the track, do not expect us to pay to repair any probelms you have". Every time I have been in the showroom, the discussion is about taking the car to the track, the next track day available, and taking the car to DE events. Recall, no customer gets the warranty book until after the car is delivered. Sure, you can ask for it before, but after you've bought previous Porsches, and it's been the mantra of the company to track, it's not anything most buyers will do. In reality, this change of heart occurred after many had purchased their cars, and while these cars were under warranty. It coincided with PCCB failure to withstand the very use for which it was intended.
When the ads depict cars on tracks, when PCCB's are sold as race proven, and the entire identity of the car is tied up in images of tracks and competition, it is somewhat disengenuous to hide the disclaimer within the warranty. The unfortunate fact is that the cars are no longer engineered or built to withstand the rigors for which they are touted. As I said, it will cause me to buy another car, probably a ZO6, when the spirit moves me. I hope that same spirit moves enough other enthusuasts so that Porsche reevaluates its position, engineers in the durability now missing to withstand high-performance use, and adds back value so we are rewarded with more than just mystique.
99/996, I guess you don't care to explain why it was acceptable to suggest DME duplicity in one post, and then get very holy with "My 2 cents is what arrogance it is for you to expect a company to pay for parts and sevices when the car was used in a way that it was not designed for. If you want to play, you have to pay". Should not common sense suggest that the latter post contradicts the prior? So, was it hypocritical or just an absence of common sense on your part? AS
When the ads depict cars on tracks, when PCCB's are sold as race proven, and the entire identity of the car is tied up in images of tracks and competition, it is somewhat disengenuous to hide the disclaimer within the warranty. The unfortunate fact is that the cars are no longer engineered or built to withstand the rigors for which they are touted. As I said, it will cause me to buy another car, probably a ZO6, when the spirit moves me. I hope that same spirit moves enough other enthusuasts so that Porsche reevaluates its position, engineers in the durability now missing to withstand high-performance use, and adds back value so we are rewarded with more than just mystique.
99/996, I guess you don't care to explain why it was acceptable to suggest DME duplicity in one post, and then get very holy with "My 2 cents is what arrogance it is for you to expect a company to pay for parts and sevices when the car was used in a way that it was not designed for. If you want to play, you have to pay". Should not common sense suggest that the latter post contradicts the prior? So, was it hypocritical or just an absence of common sense on your part? AS
I understand what you are saying, but Porsche has done what they needed to do legally and ethically to explain their warranty. If you have a problem with an individual salesman, then you should yake it up with him.
Like I said before, those of you who track their cars hoping that your normal car insurance will cover collision and liability , better check carefully. You could lose not only the car, but everything you own if you hurt someone and find out there is nothing protecting you. Many companies require a special policy to cover tracking.
02-16-2005, 06:55 PM
#73
Rennlist Member
"I think it would be easier and cheaper simply to say your DME was stolen, get a new one, and use the old one for tracking. Put the new one in for regular driving."
Followed by
"My 2 cents is what arrogance it is for you to expect a company to pay for parts and sevices when the car was used in a way that it was not designed for. If you want to play, you have to pay. So I guess if you wanted to use your car for offroading, you would expect Porsche to pay any repair bills? When you commit your car to the track, you have waived you right for some warranty coverage from Porsche. Obviously it depends on your relationship with the dealer"
Followed by,
"I didn't suggest a DME switch, but simply said that I thought it would be cheaper. As far as the warranty issue. Where have you been? "
I too am tired of this issue, but don't you see just a tiny bit of confusion in your three posts? I think most would catagorize your initial "switch" post as a helpful bu misguided suggestion. The second "found religion" post sounds like a reformed hooker. The third is positively Clintonesque. Clearly we are in the presence of a master. I am humbled. AS
Followed by
"My 2 cents is what arrogance it is for you to expect a company to pay for parts and sevices when the car was used in a way that it was not designed for. If you want to play, you have to pay. So I guess if you wanted to use your car for offroading, you would expect Porsche to pay any repair bills? When you commit your car to the track, you have waived you right for some warranty coverage from Porsche. Obviously it depends on your relationship with the dealer"
Followed by,
"I didn't suggest a DME switch, but simply said that I thought it would be cheaper. As far as the warranty issue. Where have you been? "
I too am tired of this issue, but don't you see just a tiny bit of confusion in your three posts? I think most would catagorize your initial "switch" post as a helpful bu misguided suggestion. The second "found religion" post sounds like a reformed hooker. The third is positively Clintonesque. Clearly we are in the presence of a master. I am humbled. AS
02-16-2005, 07:35 PM
#74
Drifting
I love to read this stuff. Opinion's are great!!
Alexander I don't know you. Do you own a Porsche and if so what is it? Just curious. You sound to me a little jaded with Porsche.
Porsche is quite simply not going to maintain your track car. Period. Either you accept that or not. Porsche has built many race cars and not a single one has EVER been sold at a dealer. Ever.
Alexander I don't know you. Do you own a Porsche and if so what is it? Just curious. You sound to me a little jaded with Porsche.
Porsche is quite simply not going to maintain your track car. Period. Either you accept that or not. Porsche has built many race cars and not a single one has EVER been sold at a dealer. Ever.
02-16-2005, 07:59 PM
#75
In my experience Porsche will try to weasel out of repairs because of the smallest modification. It is a hassle every time I try to get something fixed that should be under warranty and my car does NOT see the track. Are they going to tell me the residue underneath my front hood was caused by my aftermarket airfilter and there is no coverage for that? They are basically trying to deny coverage on the underneath of my hood that has a pink tint to it! Really the car never sees rain snow of bad weather always garaged covered etc. Bottom line after this one is gone, I WILL NEVER BUY ANOTHER Porsche.. Sad but true as I really do love P-cars. Folks vote with your dollars..