Moogle

1AS

Void warranty and track use became apparant with PCCB introduction. To avoid replacing $12,000 disc pairs, Porsche said "Used on track, not covered" despite the fact the brakes were advertised as racing-derived and ideal for track use. This philosophy has subsequently been applied to other claims.

If you track a car, you are going to experience Type 2 overrevs, since the downshift-under-braking is a variable event IN THE REAL WORLD. Despite all ideal scenarios, the driver does not invariably begin braking at the very same point and the very same speed. One half second longer on the gas can cause an overrev when downshifting for a corner. That happens when you are passing someone, or trying to lower your times. Therefore, if a Type 2 voids the warranty, you can't aggressively drive on track without throwing away something you paid for.

Since the warranty has a finite value, I guess Porsche could offer a partial rebate. Like, if you are void after 15,000 miles, get Xdollars back, since they are doing nothing to earn the value of what has been sold after the 15,000 mile point.

Why should the owner have to screw around changing a DME after using the car in a fashion intended? Why do we need to become deceivers? If Porsche has totally changed its philosophy (and it seems to have done so) just say it up front, so owners can make that fact a part of their decision when buying. If you go to talk to a dealer today, they will still tell you how great the cars are on track as a part of the pitch. The problem is that it's a Catch 22 for the buyer. AS

Moogle

i believe the point of this discussion is porsche's warranty/legal department being at a completely opposite and quite conterproductive standpoint from their advertising/marketing.

which is a quite decieving and a very bad way to conduct business, very unethical.

and the lengths they go to screw customers...

Cupcar

Can one ask the DME memory to be read as part of a PDI?

I can see where this information would potertially go to the value of the car, not just be a warrantee issue.

I can see the ads now: " pristine car, no type 1 or type 2 over rev recordings, only driven to the market..."

rss997

Now you guys are getting it!

My friends arbitration verdict will be in by tuesday!

I think it might have something to do with ones dealer getting pissed off and trying to make an example out of you!

Whatever the case is it is sure disgusting and sad!

Cupcar

Just Curious-

Why would a dealer ever not want to do warrantee work?

Arn't they paid for it by PCNA?

It seems they would to do it not only to make the customer happy but to keep their mechanics working as well.

I think PCNA is the problem not the dealer, they seem to be selectively controlling their warrantee losses by using the DME data.

1AS

I think that's it. (PCNA)
As tracking gets more common, and parts get more expensive, PCNA had a light bulb go on. Their "highest margin in the industry" was at risk. It doesn't take too many PCCB discs to wipe out the profit on a whole bunch of sales. Ergo, the hidden benefit of the Cayanne which will never be maximally stressed by 99.999% of buyers.
The 996 is the first example of the priority of low manufacturing cost over design excellence. Otherwise, why wouldn't all 996"s have a race-derived block, and no RMS woes.
I have no sour grapes over parts quality, as my ttX50 has been very solid, and in 2002 my dealer stood behind a set of Pirellis that suffered belt shift after track use. This policy shift reared it's noxious head in 2003 (at least in my experience). In part this was also fueled by tt enthusiasts aftermarket mods and their desire to have waranty coverage apply to the rest of the drivetrain- kind of pie-in-the sky in my opinion.
The end result will be a lot more for-the -boulevard engineering. Why they put a lap timer in the 997, i fail to understand. Maybe that hooks to the DME too. If you record a good time at a known track, that's abuse too (joke-not too funny). I loved the toughness of all Porsches since the first 356 I had a ride in (a 1955 coupe). Of course, it was easier to be race-tough with 50 hp, and today's street cars rival the performance of prepped trans am racers of the 60" and 70"s. I hope they right this ship. AS

1999Porsche911

If the decision on your buddy goes against him, I don't believe it will be because he takes it to the track. That would a too subjective of a decision on Porsche's part. However, having the type 2 overev is proof positive that the engine was abused at least once and they could stand behind that as being a reason to decline service. Again, I doubt that Porsche would ever deny warranty service without proof positive that the car was abused and tracking a car does not prove that.

rss997

right on, type 2 over rev once could happen anywhere. For them to link his track days-auto -x only, to the rms leaks by date is absurd!

Also, the billowing smoke has nothing to do with the type 2 revs...this is what they refused to fix and said was from abuse and type 2 revs....go figure.

I hope the arbitrator rules in his favor.

TT Surgeon

That smoking sounds like rings or valves, either 'could' be linked to over-revving. If you've ever blown a racing motor you know what I mean.

c4bliss

Ok, just out of curiosity, i called my dealer for the question of tracking the car, any DE event ect., to see what the implications on warranty are. His exact quote was "Any tracking of the car voids the warranty."

Tool Pants

Lots of questions.

The range 1 and 2 thing can be displayed with a PST2/PIWIS - if it is important to you. If the engine runs fine range 2 would not bother me. Range 1 means nothing to me other than the rev limiter is doing it's job

When a dealer does warranty work they are paid by PCNA. The replaced part is sent back to Atlanta. If Atlanta determines there was no reason to replace a part or if the part was "abused" then they do not pay the dealer. Guess who eats the cost?

You all own what is sold as a street car. Read the warranty booklet. Yes, that is not how Porsche markets their products. If you want a race/track car with a warranty then good luck trying to find one.

http://www.autoweek.com/article.cms?articleId=100378

Cupcar

Tool Pants- A great name BTW, wish I thought of it.

I think you are right on, I wouldn't want to warrantee track induced drivetrain damage if I were PCNA.

It's just a new thing, in the olden days one took a Porsche to the track and nothing happened very often so nobody cared. The drivetrain was pretty bullet proof.

Now with the reduction in quality in Porsche cars compared to past vehicles, damage occurrs at a high enough incidence to be of concern to PCNA's bottom line.

So here we are worried today about taking our new Porsche to the track where the bill for damages may be overwhelming....a new Porsche experience.

turbo951fan

When you look at the profit Porsche makes and the quality of the cars, you know where they save costs. They are also selling VW SUV's with a different decal on them - oh, I shouldn't have said that.

ltc

Ask him to put that into a written document, signed and dated, on the Porsche dealership letterhead. Tell him you will drive down and retrieve the document.

I'd be willing to bet they would not comply with your request.