GC996

Hahaha...

I would buy any model 996 in any year that makes you happy as long as you thoroughly vetted it. All are good choices if the engine has been well taken care of and in solid shape.

But isn't that the same for any 20 year old car? Even one powered by a mezger?

ZuffenZeus

Like the C4S, the 996 Turbo is an AWD system.

OP, the 996 Turbo along with GT cars, are some of the last to see the Mezger engine that doesn't suffer from the same failure modes that plagues the Carrera M96 engines. Unfortunately, the C4S has the same core engine has other Mk2 Carreras - M96.03 are well-known for two serious modes of failure - cylinder bore scoring and IMS bearing failure.

Here are the bank2 pistons out of my 2003 C4S M96.03 engine. This came from a one-owner car that was regularly maintained by Porsche dealerships even after warranty.

Not trying to scare you away, but this is the reality of a 20 year old Porsche 996 Carrera. If you find a good examine, get a PPI which includes bore scoping.

ZuffenZeus

dpluimer

I've had my 03 C4S Tip for almost two years now.

If there's any buzz in the cabin on startup or in turns, you're likely looking at motor and or gearbox mounts. Mine had a noticeable buzz from idle up to highway speeds. Replaced the motor and gearbox mount (the old bushing in gearbox mount fell out when it was removed) and all of those weird noise disappeared. It's like a brand new car.

Might also check on the health of the front right and left radiators. Mine started to leak at where the line in is welded. Replaced them both with CS4. A bit more spendy because they are common to the TT.

Also pulled the trigger and did the IMS. Went with the EPS bearing on recommendation from my indie. Old bearing (at 92k miles) looked fine. Still glad that I did it. Cost about $2500.

996C438

If the car has " always been maintained by the dealer " then they can tell you if/when the IMSB was replaced . And any other maintenance history . Should be a simple VIN # check . That along with a thorough PPI should give you the info to buy or run away .

ZuffenZeus

Porsche doesn't consider it a service item nor is there is not a part# assigned to the actual IMS bearing and unless the previous owner specially requested it, more than likely was not handled preventively by the dealership. I agree, it's still a good idea to double check.

GC996

Bore scoring is not an engine issue. It is caused by human error.

My bet on this engine is as follows. The owner did not properly service the engine. Instead he changed the oil every 20k miles instead if 2x a year. Probably ran the same spark plugs, ignition coils, fuel injectors for 20 years as well. Probably also just drove the car to and from the grocery store a couple of miles at a time. So he got bore scoring. Oil probably wreeked of gas.

But if he changed the oil at least 2x a year, ran fresh plugs, coils and injectors, replaced his MAF, not to mention drove it at higher rpms and did a DE or two every so often, that engine would be in great shape.

The M96 engine is solid as hell if you service it properly. Therefore, when looking for a M96 powered 996 to buy, get the service records.

No service records = no proper maintenaince = high probability of bore scoring = a car that you dont want.

Service records = confirmation to test oil = confirmation to get a PPI = confirmation to get a bore scope.

When you find a good one, buy it. You will be glad you did.

Optionman1

In the 4 years (42k miles) owning my 2003 4s I've done the following:
LN IMSB Retrofit
RMS
Clutch
Coil packs/Injectors
Water pump
Starter
Window Regulator (2x)
Horn
Alignment
997 GT3 Shifter
Motor Mounts
UAOS
Replaced Front Differential
Brakes/Pads
Upgraded Radio/CarPlay
K40 Radar detection
Fabspeed Sports Cats

plpete84

I guess as long as it's not a Cab or you can also expect a cracked head / intermix

ZuffenZeus

The "human error" was a corporate accountant that convinced the corporate heads to make compromises to save $$$ and appease the environmental government regulators that weren't done on upper end M96 engines.

brontosaurus

Well aware, but at 420 hp you could make a case for driving the front wheels. The C4S is a fine car, just at the bottom of the 996 lineup for me personally. All 996s are good.

GC996

Absolutely. Don't forget it was also Mobil convincing Porsche that the car could go 20k on every oil change. Or maybe Porsche convincing Mobil. 🤔 Not to mention the geniuses who designed and decided to use the oem AOS in the car then the engineers who suggested to run the car low on oil so the AOS didn't fail. Long line of knuckleheads.

Hope you and all others dont misunderstand my comments. After 20+ years we have identified the issues and solutions for each issue.

But the key to finding a 996 to buy is to understand the issues and solutions. Most importantly, check the engine and bores before you buy. If it's in good shape, all you have to do is properly service it with all that we learned from FSI, LN, Hartech amd countless other folks in the industry over time.

If it's not in good shape, run as fast as you can from it.

But you gotta check...

ZuffenZeus

I'm afraid you'd lose this bet. I know the family and stay in touch with this family. The car was his daily driver and had well over 100K miles before the owner passed away. He believed in short drain intervals and preventive maintenance over and above what the factory recommended at the time. The car was maintained flawlessly inside and out... even won many PCA concours events. Because of the class action law suit, they became aware of the IMS bearing problem and made plans to have it replaced. Unfortunately, cylinder bore scoring was not a topic at Porsche and so it wasn't something the family was aware of at the time. (This was also before Jake Raby and PCA released any information on the topic) They didn't realize they had a problem until they started getting misfires after engine out service. They scoped the cylinders and it was obvious they had a serious problem. The rest is history.

GC996

No question we will see more oem IMSB failures as these cars put in more mileage as well as bore scoring occurring. Just a fact of wear and tear on metal over time.

Probably never know with perfect hindsight what variables lined up to cause his borescoring.

But after 21 years and 59k miles on my 996.2 with lots of track days, local driving and oil changes every 700 miles and plenty of fresh parts every 5 years or so (fuel injectors, spark plugs, coils, MAF), very few short stints to the grocery without a longer spirited run, and in a cold weather town, i dont have any bore scoring.

But I am keeping close tabs to see if and when it develops. All out of curiosity knowing sometime in the next few years I will get an elective rebuild for more performance. With or without bore scoring. My bet is I won't have any.

imhighlander

I'll chime in as another "vote" for the C4S. Heavier? Yes. M96 limitations? Yes. But I find the aesthetics to be the best of the 996s. I like the wide body, the full heckblende, and the lack of spoilers and intake vents just make the lines the best in my opinion. I daily drive mine and absolutely love it.