hint for a 996
#1
hint for a 996
Hello,
I am about to buy a 2002 911 Carrera (996) with 140000mi. The price of $17000 is inviting.
I heard about the IMS problem. How can I verify that this car is not affected by this issue before I buy it?
Is it possible to assess (by the VIN number) if this problem was addressed?
Any hints? What should I look for or be aware when I go to see the car?
thanks a lot
I am about to buy a 2002 911 Carrera (996) with 140000mi. The price of $17000 is inviting.
I heard about the IMS problem. How can I verify that this car is not affected by this issue before I buy it?
Is it possible to assess (by the VIN number) if this problem was addressed?
Any hints? What should I look for or be aware when I go to see the car?
thanks a lot
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damage98MO (03-11-2023),
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#3
Lamentably, the 2002 model year is within the range of production (2001 through 2004) with the suspect single row IMS bearing. As many of these cars had replacement engines installed by Porsche, designated by an "AT" in the engine serial number, you may want to check that as those replacement engines utilized a much larger/stouter IMS bearing that Porsche implemented in its regular production starting in 2005. I mention this as it would be an extraordinary engine indeed that logged 140k miles with the smaller single row bearing. Ask the seller for any and all documentation concerning the IMS bearing. A further lamentation is that there is no way to assess the condition of the bearing without removing the bearing which, at a minimum, entails removing the transmission. Be aware that failure of this bearing typically results in catastrophic engine failure, and even a used replacement engine will cost you $15K+ including installation. That's a hell of a baptism into the world of the 996, but it has happened right here on this forum. For me, unless the seller could provide some definitive documentation regarding the state of the IMS bearing, I would take a pass on this car and keep looking. Remember, the cheapest Porsche you buy will be the most expensive Porsche you buy, or something like that. Best of luck!
#4
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Hello,
I am about to buy a 2002 911 Carrera (996) with 140000mi. The price of $17000 is inviting.
I heard about the IMS problem. How can I verify that this car is not affected by this issue before I buy it?
Is it possible to assess (by the VIN number) if this problem was addressed?
Any hints? What should I look for or be aware when I go to see the car?
thanks a lot
I am about to buy a 2002 911 Carrera (996) with 140000mi. The price of $17000 is inviting.
I heard about the IMS problem. How can I verify that this car is not affected by this issue before I buy it?
Is it possible to assess (by the VIN number) if this problem was addressed?
Any hints? What should I look for or be aware when I go to see the car?
thanks a lot
#5
Lamentably, the 2002 model year is within the range of production (2001 through 2004) with the suspect single row IMS bearing. As many of these cars had replacement engines installed by Porsche, designated by an "AT" in the engine serial number, you may want to check that as those replacement engines utilized a much larger/stouter IMS bearing that Porsche implemented in its regular production starting in 2005. I mention this as it would be an extraordinary engine indeed that logged 140k miles with the smaller single row bearing. Ask the seller for any and all documentation concerning the IMS bearing. A further lamentation is that there is no way to assess the condition of the bearing without removing the bearing which, at a minimum, entails removing the transmission. Be aware that failure of this bearing typically results in catastrophic engine failure, and even a used replacement engine will cost you $15K+ including installation. That's a hell of a baptism into the world of the 996, but it has happened right here on this forum. For me, unless the seller could provide some definitive documentation regarding the state of the IMS bearing, I would take a pass on this car and keep looking. Remember, the cheapest Porsche you buy will be the most expensive Porsche you buy, or something like that. Best of luck!
#6
Yes, correct. The replacement engines with "AT" in the serial number use the 3rd generation larger single row bearing. If memory serves me correctly, those "AT" engines were replaced by Porsche under warranty. Having said that, it could also be possible that if the original engine was replaced, it was replaced with another used engine that may well have the very same issue with the IMS bearing. Or it could in fact be the original engine with 140K miles, in which the latter two cases I would pass on this car unless there was some definitive recent IMS bearing replacement documentation.
#7
Yes, correct. The replacement engines with "AT" in the serial number use the 3rd generation larger single row bearing. If memory serves me correctly, those "AT" engines were replaced by Porsche under warranty. Having said that, it could also be possible that if the original engine was replaced, it was replaced with another used engine that may well have the very same issue with the IMS bearing. Or it could in fact be the original engine with 140K miles, in which the latter two cases I would pass on this car unless there was some definitive recent IMS bearing replacement documentation.
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Weazer (03-11-2023)
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#8
Three Wheelin'
Hello,
I am about to buy a 2002 911 Carrera (996) with 140000mi. The price of $17000 is inviting.
I heard about the IMS problem. How can I verify that this car is not affected by this issue before I buy it?
Is it possible to assess (by the VIN number) if this problem was addressed?
Any hints? What should I look for or be aware when I go to see the car?
thanks a lot
I am about to buy a 2002 911 Carrera (996) with 140000mi. The price of $17000 is inviting.
I heard about the IMS problem. How can I verify that this car is not affected by this issue before I buy it?
Is it possible to assess (by the VIN number) if this problem was addressed?
Any hints? What should I look for or be aware when I go to see the car?
thanks a lot
downward spiral cracked a cylinder. I now have a nice shiny new FSI motor and a lighter wallet.
Currently your engine is between 15 and 35K (Depending on your level of "I'm gonna bulletproof the thing) and the builder you choose..
#9
The IMS bearing (IMHO) is such an overblown issue. The actual number of reported failures that occurred is a small percentage. My 2001 C4 has 149K on its clock and the original IMS.
I just did a gearbox/flywheel/clutch replacement in January and inspected my IMS. It looked fine at 149K. But if I had a huge concern about it, the cost to replace it (these days) is not terribly expensive. The bigger concern should be the AOS and the waterpump (again IMHO), and checking the cam deviation for an M96 engine with that many miles on it.
Let's be real... you should not expect to not have to do some semblance of maintenance that's going to dig in your pocket just a bit for a $17K 996 with 140K miles on its clock but the good news is it made it there. Most IMS failures happened in engines with less than 50K and never saw 100k miles. If you are seriously concerned about it, just replace it and enjoy this really great Porsche.
I have been motoring around in Porsche's for many years (30+) and have never owed any model (to include brand new from the factory) that I could just take out and drive without carefully and diligently maintaining it... and with that said, YMMV.
149K on this IMS bearing and no issues to date.
.
I just did a gearbox/flywheel/clutch replacement in January and inspected my IMS. It looked fine at 149K. But if I had a huge concern about it, the cost to replace it (these days) is not terribly expensive. The bigger concern should be the AOS and the waterpump (again IMHO), and checking the cam deviation for an M96 engine with that many miles on it.
Let's be real... you should not expect to not have to do some semblance of maintenance that's going to dig in your pocket just a bit for a $17K 996 with 140K miles on its clock but the good news is it made it there. Most IMS failures happened in engines with less than 50K and never saw 100k miles. If you are seriously concerned about it, just replace it and enjoy this really great Porsche.
I have been motoring around in Porsche's for many years (30+) and have never owed any model (to include brand new from the factory) that I could just take out and drive without carefully and diligently maintaining it... and with that said, YMMV.
149K on this IMS bearing and no issues to date.
.
Last edited by Pat Edwards MA; 03-11-2023 at 12:13 PM.
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#10
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#11
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Not an expert, but the original law suit percentages, as b3 mentions above, is only the tip of the failures. As our 996's get older, we are seeing a lot more failures. Again, eluding to what b3 is saying, the IMSB is now considered a wear item and should be replaced periodically. At 140,000, most would think you are past due, even in a very healthy engine.
At any rate, for most purchases, a PPI is strongly recommended. When I bought mine and had it inspected, we discovered an IMSB that was beginning to fail (56K miles). Lucky we caught it in time.
At any rate, for most purchases, a PPI is strongly recommended. When I bought mine and had it inspected, we discovered an IMSB that was beginning to fail (56K miles). Lucky we caught it in time.
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#12
Burning Brakes
The IMS bearing (IMHO) is such an overblown issue. The actual number of reported failures that occurred is a small percentage. My 2001 C4 has 149K on its clock and the original IMS.
I just did a gearbox/flywheel/clutch replacement in January and inspected my IMS. It looked fine at 149K. But if I had a huge concern about it, the cost to replace it (these days) is not terribly expensive. The bigger concern should be the AOS and the waterpump (again IMHO), and checking the cam deviation for an M96 engine with that many miles on it.
Let's be real... you should not expect to not have to do some semblance of maintenance that's going to dig in your pocket just a bit for a $17K 996 with 140K miles on its clock but the good news is it made it there. Most IMS failures happened in engines with less than 50K and never saw 100k miles. If you are seriously concerned about it, just replace it and enjoy this really great Porsche.
I have been motoring around in Porsche's for many years (30+) and have never owed any model (to include brand new from the factory) that I could just take out and drive without carefully and diligently maintaining it... and with that said, YMMV.
149K on this IMS bearing and no issues to date.
.
I just did a gearbox/flywheel/clutch replacement in January and inspected my IMS. It looked fine at 149K. But if I had a huge concern about it, the cost to replace it (these days) is not terribly expensive. The bigger concern should be the AOS and the waterpump (again IMHO), and checking the cam deviation for an M96 engine with that many miles on it.
Let's be real... you should not expect to not have to do some semblance of maintenance that's going to dig in your pocket just a bit for a $17K 996 with 140K miles on its clock but the good news is it made it there. Most IMS failures happened in engines with less than 50K and never saw 100k miles. If you are seriously concerned about it, just replace it and enjoy this really great Porsche.
I have been motoring around in Porsche's for many years (30+) and have never owed any model (to include brand new from the factory) that I could just take out and drive without carefully and diligently maintaining it... and with that said, YMMV.
149K on this IMS bearing and no issues to date.
.
Also that's not a stock IMSB cover or nut.
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#15
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Or hell, maybe I could be convinced to go air cooled, older 911, or a 993. That said I've recently driven a well sorted 964 C2 as well as a 3.2, I Believe it was an 87? Neither of them felt as alive through the wheel as my 996, they felt slower, were slower, and those cars do come with their own issues. That said I freaking love the sound of air cooled 911s. The 996 is very different, higher, not as rumbly. Stock it was not to my taste,, but I do love the sound of my custom exhaust. I used all top gear UK headers, 200cell X-pipe cats and their valved mufflers. I think the xpipe contributes to the higher pitch race car sound when revved, but that's conjecture, I read it on the Internet. I just know it sounds good enough to make me forget my jealousy of a well tuned 2.4 or similar.
I'm actually nervous about the bore scope and sump results, that will decide my next steps. I've had 2 UOAs done, by Blackstone and the other guys, both from the same sample. Both services said the used oil looks perfect, so fingers crossed. I'll update my 996 friends here with the honest results. I'm very thankful that I can afford to do this now without taking my retirement plans. Remember, you can always sell the 996 for what you paid for it. But get that ppi and insist on a hot engine DME as well as a bore scope from the bottom. My Indy is doing the oil change, filter, filter exam, sump drop and exam, and capturing the used oil for me to send away again. All of that for 700.00 and the work done by my Indy personally, while his staff observe maybe, and learn. To me that's incredible value. Maybe some day I'll outfit the small original carriage house {a fancy little cape cod detached garage} at my rural retirement home. It has a gravel floor, but I could pour a nice floor and have room for the car and some tools, maybe even a lift, though the attic on the second floor would need to come out I think, so structural changes required. Plus it needs power. There is water at least. Until then I pay someone and thankfully that someone knows his stuff. I've tried to stump him, and asked some stupid guy trick questions. He's known the correct answer and what should really be done to solve for x, every time. Like I said, hrs a well known master mechanic or better, he owns the shop. He has been working on Porsche cars since before we even had a local dealer, hell he even owned (disclaimer, only one source provided this info )the Porsche Wilmington.com domain. The owners of the Porsche service center we have now apparently took offence to that when they arrived. Instead of offering to buy it, they sent a lawyer letter, and being the better man, my Indy took it down, he's not into squabbles with lawyers against Big money. Thankfully, their relationship is and has been good for a long time now. The Porsche service center actually recommended him to me. I'm sure they would maintain my car there as well, but I prefer to work with and support the guy who actually trained a few of the PSC mechanics, and like I said, he's held in high regard. I imagine that him doing the work and my new service record binder with every receipt, can't hurt if I do decide I've had enough and want an air cooled car. My 996 is my daily, and with no garage there's a limit to how much money in vintage 911 is in my car port 😂. I'm sure 95% of people who see my car think it's expensive and probably don't even know it's age or that it's an unloved edition, until they're close and know what to look for. I would prefer it not be expensive, and that no one notices it tbh. I'm definitely not someone who would be comfortable flaunting hypercar wealth. Under the radar please. I do get the odd smile and wave, and some even ask about it. I'm happy to share a bit about the car, but I make sure they realize it's no more expensive than a loaded CUV, in in fact much less, due to the minor if any depreciation in value these cars will experience in years to come. OMG I must have wanted to get this off my chest or something. This post is way too rambling and long. Good luck OP, however you decide!
Last edited by damage98MO; 03-11-2023 at 02:06 PM.
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