jbdmd

Thinking of switching out my stokc set up for ROW

Am I making a mistake? Is row just OK for track work?
Do I need to stop being so Dang cheap and go for x74?

I starting doing track events this year and did 3 DE's and 2 autocross
I plan on doing 8-10 DE's and 10-15 Autox a year

I have searched through the archives and not found much on this SPECIFIC topic

Thanks for any help

boqueron

For my taste ROW is a nice suspension.... for daily driving. It is not at all - I think - a "Sports" suspension. ROW is what came with my European Porsches and I shifted to a civilized suspension ( Pss9 ) that could give me - with certain limitations - the possibility of circuit /mountain dirving AND a daily driving . I also llike the possibility to change - with no special abilities - the stifness settings.

My vote for the Pss9.

Good Luck !

earlyapex

Jason,

My car is a daily driver that I also autocross and track. I've chosen to put on a set of PSS9's because of their adjustability. You know what happens after improving you suspension, right? You'll need better seats to keep you in place!

viperbob

Jason,

You absolutely do not want a factory suspension for what you are doing. I agree with Eric, the PSS9s would be a great setup for you with all the track and Auto-Xs you are planning.... You should also consider some new sway bars....

TT Gasman

Jason,
With all due respect to ViperBob and others I think the factory sport suspensions are fine for DEs. I'm not an autocrosser so I can't comment on that part of your question. It all depends on how fast you are going, if you're running in the novice to intermediate run groups with street tires or R tires then the M030 and X 74 suspensions are more than adequate. On the other hand you are running in the advanced run groups with serious R compound tires and high cornering speeds then I concur with Bob, stock suspensions are not for you. You need the ability to run significant amounts of negative camber and adjustability in ride height and sway bar settings. . For this level of adjustability and lower ride height you need a coil over suspension, be it H&R or Bilstein, and better sway bars etc. ( We used weight jacks and track bars in my racing days 20 years ago )
You also need to ask yourself how far are you willing to go. With these kinds of serious suspension mods you need the appropriate safety equipment as well. Roll bar/cage, 6 point harness and fire suppression system....I will defer this to another thread on the racing board but you get the idea. Mods are always a compromise, what helps on the track generally hurts daily drivability of the car. So if this is your daily driver maybe a factory setup like M030/X74 is better. IMHO

Jim Michaels

The slippery slope may have another one on the skids. Eight to 10 DEs a year (and 10-15 autoxes) would put you in the track junkie category. And your car would be in danger of becoming a dedicated track car; suitable for trailering to and from events, as you won't want to drive your car with 2.5 degrees camber and race rubber to and from events. With all that seat time, you should move up fast, and the PSS-9 that seems so right for the occasional tracker may not be stiff enough for you to keep up with your new peers. Doug is right to suggest that you first ask yourself just how far you really want to go, but your early answer may not hold for very long once you start tracking every other weekend. You'll probably fall in with a "bad crowd" with its own distinct subculture of speed and performance. Ken Trottere described this "disease" very well in an article in The Mountain Messenger (Pocono Region newsletter, July 2003). He called the disease CARS (Chronic Auto-related Racetrack Syndrome). I don't think there's any pill that will prevent its onset, and there is no support group such as AA to help you kick the disease.

pstoppani

You're definitely in the track junkie level. After going through all the stages of CARS, as Jim puts it, I've ended up with a very expensive dedicated track car (an M3). If I had to do it all over again, I'd buy a much less expensive but just as capable track car and keep the expensive car, now a 40th Anniv 911, as primarily a street car and take it to the track only occassionally (4 or 5 DEs a year).

But, having said all that, the US sport and ROW are both fine suspensions. I drove a 2000 Boxster S on a ROW suspension for two years doing 20 DEs a year on R compounds and it was usually one of the fastest cars on the track.

In the end, it is a personal choice of whether or not you like how the car feels and what class of autox that you do (ROW is not considered stock BTW).

Palting

Jason,

The C4S comes stock with the 030 suspension. Early on, I got bit with the "modify the car for the track" bug. For suspension, I thought through the whole available gamut. Decided on the X73/74 suspension. Unfortunately, it was not yet available. While waiting for the suspension to be available, I've taken the car as-is to 14 weekend DE events plus assorted open lapping days, and a full season of autocross. I now have a full set of new R-compounds as a trophy for winning the autocross season. I am confident enough at the track now that nothing but the all out race cars intimidate me. And, I still don't think I've maxed out the 030 suspension!! There is still room for my track driving skills to grow with this suspension. And, I still feel it is a little stiff for daily driving. I am now delaying my purschase of a stiffer suspension.

I'd say go with the 030. It is an excellent compromise for street and track, with a significant bias towards track use. The depth of its track capability is amazing. When you are ready for MOSTLY track use and occasional street use, go with the X suspension. At that point, you may even wish to switch from a cab to a coupe to take advantage of the stiffer platform that a coupe will provide.

Just my humble opinion. Hope it helps.

jbdmd

Thanks to everyone who replied!

Palting....yeah I am already having a huge internal debate about my next car...coupe vs cab? I am still undecided on what I want the car to be for. ...kick *** DD (Daily Driver) or kick *** at DE ....I know a lot of guys push the crap out of these rigs but I, in the back of my mind, I am still a little worried about wrapping a $90k car around a barrier!....so lately i have been scouring the mid 80's Carrera 3.2 market.

Palting have you seen much bad happen to late model cars out there?

Thanks to all who suggested PSS9...I would love to but...in my mind...I cannot justify the extra expense.

jetskied

JB it depends how fast are you too. I find the M030 fine for my 3-4DE and 3-4 AutoX. PSS9 are a good options for shock adjustability, but you would not want to adjust the height often since you'll have to realign the car. I say the best thing for you is a M030 and put some adjustable sway bars. I think that will be the most bang for your buck.

earlyapex

Jason,

Don't overlook the 911SC.

Palting

I hear ya, Jason. However, I think the biggest causes for bad things are avoidable. True, there can be an oil slick from a blown engine ahead of you, or you encounter a bad driver before he gets black flagged, but breaking the 7/10ths rule I think is a big cause for the crashes.

I got the car because it performs. It performs so well, that the only place you can appreciate this safely is at the track. Unless you are suicidal, there is no place on public roads that will even challenge the capability of these cars. So, I take them to the track, and will continue to do so.

I will most likely keep the C4S completely stock. By the time my driving skills reach the cars limit, I'll probably be ready for a dedicated track car. Maybe a race car!! WooHooo!!!!

jbdmd

would you go for an sc over the carrera??
if so why?

jbdmd

Palting
That's a lot of seat time!
so you think ROW and maybe a set of track wheels/tires and i am good?
Or were you tracking that hard in street tires?

Palting

R compounds definitely inspire confidence, but you learn more about car control with street tires. I got my first set of R-compounds at about my 6th DE weekend, and I was going at insane speeds. And there's the rub. I didn't feel I had the skills nor the lightning reflexes as yet to go at those insane speeds. It was hell of a lot of fun, but scary as anything. I went back to street tires, and was more comfortable listening to their delirious squeeling and pushing them further while still maintaining control.

Go with the 030's, wear out a few sets of street tires until you feel comfortable sliding them around at track speeds, before you go with R compounds. Street tires give a lot of warning, have a higher margin of safety before total loss of control than R compounds. It's a lot easier to do drifts, rotations, throttle steer and trail braking, things that are essential for track and a lot of fun to execute, on street tires.