About to buy first Porsche
#16
Joined this forum looking for some help. About to buy my first Porsche, obvi has to be a 911. Was looking at 997s for a while, but for whatever reason they didn’t excite me THAT much (except the turbo of course, which is out of budget). The 996 has always attracted so much rancor as you all know, but I’m now really drawn to the styling. Blah blah anyway. I’m looking at an ‘02 C4S. How do I vet the car? What tests do I need to get done? Plz help me not **** this up.
As far as tests, it's always wise to have a pre-purchase inspection from a Porsche shop that can run the following inspections:
Engine:
1. Bore Scope inspection to rule out scoring. Listen for a ticking sound on the passenger side under the rear wheel well.
2. Manometer to rule out vacuum leaks, especially a failing AOS
3. Check coolant expansion tank for pressure and inspect coolant to rule any possible intermix
4. Drop the oil sump to inspect for metal debris or at least cut and examine the oil filter
5. With diagnostic scanner, check the following:
a. Overevs - (avoid cars with excessive stage 2 overrevs)
b. Readiness status - check to make sure the car's CEL hasn't been erased and it's "ready" for an emissions check
c. Rough running index - to check the health of the cylinders and firing
d. Camshaft deviations - to check timing and wear on the chain guides. No more than 6 degrees of deviation
e. Fuel Trim
6. Examine serpentine belt for wear.
7. Listen for any usual squealing noises that could point to tensioners going bad or a component.
8. Look for fluid drips. Oil around any component. Coolant around the water pump.
Suspension/Brakes/Wheels:
1. Check all suspension components for looseness
2. Examine boot for ruptures on t-rods
3. Check all bushings
4. See if anything has been swapped for aftermarket.
5. Examine wear on the rotors and brake pads. Is there a sensor pad DTC on the gauges?
6. Spin and shake the tires for noise related to wheel bearings
7. While driving turn the steering at low speed to see if strut bearing need replacement
8. Drive slowly over speed bumps and listen for squeaks or other noises
9. During test drive closely examine the alignment and if there is any vibration and shake in the steering
10 During test drive get the car up to higher speed on the freeway to see if it holds steady or feels loose.
11. During test drive, all check braking for pull in the steering and/or soft braking under heavy stops.
Interior:
1. Let your inner child come out and check all the obvious (mirror lights work, shades holds, etc.)
2. Check the windows for grinding noises which is usually a faulty window regulator
3. If it's cabriolet, check the function of the top several times to make sure windows drop, and the top opens and closes without pause
4. Slightly pull on the door handle to confirm window drop works correctly.
5. Test all buttons for functionality.
6. Check radio. The first run of the MOST (PCM2 or CDR-24) were very problematic and prone to failure.
7. Check AC control. Turn on heat full blast. These AC systems were known to have blend door problems. If you don't have heat, then it may be a blend door issue.
8. Check gauges and make sure no DTC or CEL come on during test drive.
9. Check key fobs for function and walk a distance to test range. The fobs are known to fail at this age. Replacement is about $400 - $500 each.
10. Check all functions of the seats, especially is electronic positioning with heat.
11. Test the sunroof for functionality. Test one button open and close.
12. Closely examine all leather surfaces for cracks, shrinkage, etc.
13. Examine headliner. Is it drooping?
Frunk/Rear deck lid:
1. Check and make sure you have a tool kit. The C4S doesn't come with a spare, but if you have wheel key lugs, you need to make sure the key socket is available.
2. Check frunk and deck lid interior lights
3. Examine the under the frunk bonnet for option sticker. If missing, it come mean an accident where the hood was replaced.
4. Pop the frunk/rear deck lid with FOB and button on the door seal for functionality of opening. They're electronically actuated.
Lighting:
1. Check the obvious. Find a dark area and test all interior and exterior lighting.
2. The light switches are another failure point, while testing make sure the lights don't flicker.
3. With someone to help, test all brake and turn signal lighting.
4. Check the xenon HID balancing
5. Examine front headlight enclosures for oxidation
6. Examine the rear light enclosures for cracks.
Security System:
1. Close all doors and click lock on the remote to arm the car. The car should double blink the amber lights. A slight honk could point to an open circuit or sensor failure.
2. Test alarm horn by arming the car and then open the driver's door with the key blade.
I'm sure there are more things, but this hopefully will help you get started.
All the best!
The following 5 users liked this post by ZuffenZeus:
dallenp (02-07-2023),
Dr_Strangelove (01-31-2023),
GC996 (01-31-2023),
Porschetech3 (01-31-2023),
TexSquirrel (01-31-2023)
#17
@the_wolperting there are plenty more 996 C4S' for sale. Get involved with your local PCA region and start going to events and talk it up with members about what you are looking for. Stop in at the local dealer and talk to the sales and service guys. Keep in the back of your mind that the service guys know more than the sales guys about the people and cars they service. Same can be said for the local Porsche Indys. Life is a networking exercise. You may be surprised what you come up with. Most importantly, it will be easier to ascertain the service history of the car quickly.
this is on point, i went to my local indy and he had a Turbo car that looked like it would be good to improve upon it wasn't pristine but it was a Turbo..i asked him if it was for sale and he said his customer was selling it... but advised against it as he said that particular customer would not do any preventative maintenance and would not spend any money on the car.. he shook his head emphatically it was a no no..i took my car after i bought it to the same indy and he was very positive about my car and didnt try to upsell me on anything..let me look underneath that's when i discovered i had a factory replacement engine.. so a good indy is worth their weight in knowledge
The following users liked this post:
GC996 (01-31-2023)
#18
IMHO, the 996 C4S is the most sexy of Carrera models with its Turbo wide body, Turbo front bumper skin, and iconic rear center reflector. These are pretty special cars.
6. Examine the rear light enclosures for cracks.
Security System:
1. Close all doors and click lock on the remote to arm the car. The car should double blink the amber lights. A slight honk could point to an open circuit or sensor failure.
2. Test alarm horn by arming the car and then open the driver's door with the key blade.
I'm sure there are more things, but this hopefully will help you get started.
All the best!
6. Examine the rear light enclosures for cracks.
Security System:
1. Close all doors and click lock on the remote to arm the car. The car should double blink the amber lights. A slight honk could point to an open circuit or sensor failure.
2. Test alarm horn by arming the car and then open the driver's door with the key blade.
I'm sure there are more things, but this hopefully will help you get started.
All the best!
The following 2 users liked this post by RWPinNC:
TexSquirrel (01-31-2023),
ZuffenZeus (01-31-2023)
#19
I thought the C4S spare wheel was under the frunk floor panel? Was this not the case for all years?
#20
Like the 996 Turbo, the AWD 996 C4S has the “hump in the frunk” because the front drive assembly and fuel tank. I believe it comes with a tire repair kit?🤷♂️ Not totally sure on that.
#21
Hope it helps someone.
Last edited by ZuffenZeus; 01-31-2023 at 08:13 PM.
The following users liked this post:
Dr_Strangelove (02-01-2023)
#22
The following 3 users liked this post by gbarron:
The following users liked this post:
dporto (03-09-2023)
#24
#25
That is super detailed and incredibly helpful, I really appreciate it! Here is the car I’m looking at:
https://www.luxsport.com/2004-porsch...a-4s-c-939.htm
Im going to email them tmrw and ask for service records. Will update this thread when I get them!
https://www.luxsport.com/2004-porsch...a-4s-c-939.htm
Im going to email them tmrw and ask for service records. Will update this thread when I get them!
#26
OP if you are looking to spend $55k and want AWD/widebody, just reach a bit and buy a Turbo. No point in dealing with the M96.0 time bomb, just get the good motor and be done with it.
The following users liked this post:
Marv (02-08-2023)
#27
There are two different collapsible spares for the 6TT though, one for 330mm and a different one for 350mm rotors.
#28
I have to agree with last post, you might could get into a 996 Turbo for not much more money, although it likely would not be white or have low miles like that, however as your 996 ownership knowledge expands you may well hear the word
Metzger engine, which is considered by most to be bullet proof, that engine is in the Turbo and the GT cars of that era, TBH you could likely get into a 996 that's very good for 10-15k less than that asking price, i would suggest that your use for the new car will make a difference, if you want something to bring to local car shows and just weekend it and keep mostly pristine then that car may be your car, if you want to rack up some miles do some track or HPDE days then something with a few more miles might make sense to you...
I picked up a 2000 model year Aerokit car sub 40k during covid, with 74,000 miles and a full service history with all the heavy maintenance and the IMS, RMS and clutch done, if i was shopping at 55k i would go Turbo even if its got a few more miles. i would likely even do a Tiptronic 996.2 as the later Tip has apparently better shifting.
Good Luck with the search.
Metzger engine, which is considered by most to be bullet proof, that engine is in the Turbo and the GT cars of that era, TBH you could likely get into a 996 that's very good for 10-15k less than that asking price, i would suggest that your use for the new car will make a difference, if you want something to bring to local car shows and just weekend it and keep mostly pristine then that car may be your car, if you want to rack up some miles do some track or HPDE days then something with a few more miles might make sense to you...
I picked up a 2000 model year Aerokit car sub 40k during covid, with 74,000 miles and a full service history with all the heavy maintenance and the IMS, RMS and clutch done, if i was shopping at 55k i would go Turbo even if its got a few more miles. i would likely even do a Tiptronic 996.2 as the later Tip has apparently better shifting.
Good Luck with the search.
#29
IMHO, the 996 C4S is the most sexy of Carrera models with its Turbo wide body, Turbo front bumper skin, and iconic rear center reflector. These are pretty special cars.
As far as tests, it's always wise to have a pre-purchase inspection from a Porsche shop that can run the following inspections:
Engine:
1. Bore Scope inspection to rule out scoring. Listen for a ticking sound on the passenger side under the rear wheel well.
2. Manometer to rule out vacuum leaks, especially a failing AOS
3. Check coolant expansion tank for pressure and inspect coolant to rule any possible intermix
4. Drop the oil sump to inspect for metal debris or at least cut and examine the oil filter
5. With diagnostic scanner, check the following:
a. Overevs - (avoid cars with excessive stage 2 overrevs)
b. Readiness status - check to make sure the car's CEL hasn't been erased and it's "ready" for an emissions check
c. Rough running index - to check the health of the cylinders and firing
d. Camshaft deviations - to check timing and wear on the chain guides. No more than 6 degrees of deviation
e. Fuel Trim
6. Examine serpentine belt for wear.
7. Listen for any usual squealing noises that could point to tensioners going bad or a component.
8. Look for fluid drips. Oil around any component. Coolant around the water pump.
Suspension/Brakes/Wheels:
1. Check all suspension components for looseness
2. Examine boot for ruptures on t-rods
3. Check all bushings
4. See if anything has been swapped for aftermarket.
5. Examine wear on the rotors and brake pads. Is there a sensor pad DTC on the gauges?
6. Spin and shake the tires for noise related to wheel bearings
7. While driving turn the steering at low speed to see if strut bearing need replacement
8. Drive slowly over speed bumps and listen for squeaks or other noises
9. During test drive closely examine the alignment and if there is any vibration and shake in the steering
10 During test drive get the car up to higher speed on the freeway to see if it holds steady or feels loose.
11. During test drive, all check braking for pull in the steering and/or soft braking under heavy stops.
Interior:
1. Let your inner child come out and check all the obvious (mirror lights work, shades holds, etc.)
2. Check the windows for grinding noises which is usually a faulty window regulator
3. If it's cabriolet, check the function of the top several times to make sure windows drop, and the top opens and closes without pause
4. Slightly pull on the door handle to confirm window drop works correctly.
5. Test all buttons for functionality.
6. Check radio. The first run of the MOST (PCM2 or CDR-24) were very problematic and prone to failure.
7. Check AC control. Turn on heat full blast. These AC systems were known to have blend door problems. If you don't have heat, then it may be a blend door issue.
8. Check gauges and make sure no DTC or CEL come on during test drive.
9. Check key fobs for function and walk a distance to test range. The fobs are known to fail at this age. Replacement is about $400 - $500 each.
10. Check all functions of the seats, especially is electronic positioning with heat.
11. Test the sunroof for functionality. Test one button open and close.
12. Closely examine all leather surfaces for cracks, shrinkage, etc.
13. Examine headliner. Is it drooping?
Frunk/Rear deck lid:
1. Check and make sure you have a tool kit. The C4S doesn't come with a spare, but if you have wheel key lugs, you need to make sure the key socket is available.
2. Check frunk and deck lid interior lights
3. Examine the under the frunk bonnet for option sticker. If missing, it come mean an accident where the hood was replaced.
4. Pop the frunk/rear deck lid with FOB and button on the door seal for functionality of opening. They're electronically actuated.
Lighting:
1. Check the obvious. Find a dark area and test all interior and exterior lighting.
2. The light switches are another failure point, while testing make sure the lights don't flicker.
3. With someone to help, test all brake and turn signal lighting.
4. Check the xenon HID balancing
5. Examine front headlight enclosures for oxidation
6. Examine the rear light enclosures for cracks.
Security System:
1. Close all doors and click lock on the remote to arm the car. The car should double blink the amber lights. A slight honk could point to an open circuit or sensor failure.
2. Test alarm horn by arming the car and then open the driver's door with the key blade.
I'm sure there are more things, but this hopefully will help you get started.
All the best!
As far as tests, it's always wise to have a pre-purchase inspection from a Porsche shop that can run the following inspections:
Engine:
1. Bore Scope inspection to rule out scoring. Listen for a ticking sound on the passenger side under the rear wheel well.
2. Manometer to rule out vacuum leaks, especially a failing AOS
3. Check coolant expansion tank for pressure and inspect coolant to rule any possible intermix
4. Drop the oil sump to inspect for metal debris or at least cut and examine the oil filter
5. With diagnostic scanner, check the following:
a. Overevs - (avoid cars with excessive stage 2 overrevs)
b. Readiness status - check to make sure the car's CEL hasn't been erased and it's "ready" for an emissions check
c. Rough running index - to check the health of the cylinders and firing
d. Camshaft deviations - to check timing and wear on the chain guides. No more than 6 degrees of deviation
e. Fuel Trim
6. Examine serpentine belt for wear.
7. Listen for any usual squealing noises that could point to tensioners going bad or a component.
8. Look for fluid drips. Oil around any component. Coolant around the water pump.
Suspension/Brakes/Wheels:
1. Check all suspension components for looseness
2. Examine boot for ruptures on t-rods
3. Check all bushings
4. See if anything has been swapped for aftermarket.
5. Examine wear on the rotors and brake pads. Is there a sensor pad DTC on the gauges?
6. Spin and shake the tires for noise related to wheel bearings
7. While driving turn the steering at low speed to see if strut bearing need replacement
8. Drive slowly over speed bumps and listen for squeaks or other noises
9. During test drive closely examine the alignment and if there is any vibration and shake in the steering
10 During test drive get the car up to higher speed on the freeway to see if it holds steady or feels loose.
11. During test drive, all check braking for pull in the steering and/or soft braking under heavy stops.
Interior:
1. Let your inner child come out and check all the obvious (mirror lights work, shades holds, etc.)
2. Check the windows for grinding noises which is usually a faulty window regulator
3. If it's cabriolet, check the function of the top several times to make sure windows drop, and the top opens and closes without pause
4. Slightly pull on the door handle to confirm window drop works correctly.
5. Test all buttons for functionality.
6. Check radio. The first run of the MOST (PCM2 or CDR-24) were very problematic and prone to failure.
7. Check AC control. Turn on heat full blast. These AC systems were known to have blend door problems. If you don't have heat, then it may be a blend door issue.
8. Check gauges and make sure no DTC or CEL come on during test drive.
9. Check key fobs for function and walk a distance to test range. The fobs are known to fail at this age. Replacement is about $400 - $500 each.
10. Check all functions of the seats, especially is electronic positioning with heat.
11. Test the sunroof for functionality. Test one button open and close.
12. Closely examine all leather surfaces for cracks, shrinkage, etc.
13. Examine headliner. Is it drooping?
Frunk/Rear deck lid:
1. Check and make sure you have a tool kit. The C4S doesn't come with a spare, but if you have wheel key lugs, you need to make sure the key socket is available.
2. Check frunk and deck lid interior lights
3. Examine the under the frunk bonnet for option sticker. If missing, it come mean an accident where the hood was replaced.
4. Pop the frunk/rear deck lid with FOB and button on the door seal for functionality of opening. They're electronically actuated.
Lighting:
1. Check the obvious. Find a dark area and test all interior and exterior lighting.
2. The light switches are another failure point, while testing make sure the lights don't flicker.
3. With someone to help, test all brake and turn signal lighting.
4. Check the xenon HID balancing
5. Examine front headlight enclosures for oxidation
6. Examine the rear light enclosures for cracks.
Security System:
1. Close all doors and click lock on the remote to arm the car. The car should double blink the amber lights. A slight honk could point to an open circuit or sensor failure.
2. Test alarm horn by arming the car and then open the driver's door with the key blade.
I'm sure there are more things, but this hopefully will help you get started.
All the best!
#30
Since its a 3rd car, go with a C2 or a C4. You will save $15-20k and use those savings to refresh the car. Nice set of wheels and rubber and a set of spacers will make the car look very meaty. Add in a LSD and you will have all the traction you need.