Help with Pcode 1325
11-25-2020, 06:38 PM
#1
Help with Pcode 1325
2004 C2 - Just started up my rebuilt engine. Good news is it started right up after priming the oil. Bad new is that I'm having misfires on all of bank 2 (each cylinder throughs misfire codes) and P1325. It would seem I am having an issue with the bank 2 cam adjustment solenoid or cam sensor. I have read numerous posts on diagnosing this but have some questions. First some data:
Camshaft position 1 deviation is +4.3 (higher than what I would have expected since timing tool fit without any resistance during the timing process but technically in spec)
Camshaft position 2 deviation is +1.3
I haven't had success understanding what the readings for actual angle for inlet camshaft and spec angle for inlet camshaft are supposed to be when operating normally or what the difference is between spec and actual. At idle these numbers are normally around 1 to 3 degrees but during my first run I would see numbers as high at 43.
FRA is running around 1
Car starts cutting out once I reve over 3k rpm and will also die occasionally at idle.
All readings are on a durametric pro
To try and isolate the problem, I know that you can actuate the cam lift solenoid through durametric. However, durametric has two actuation listings but both of the say "lift actuation for bank 1 and bank 2". So I can't tell which is controlling bank 1 and bank 2 or it is actuating both (which doesn't help me to identify if bank 2 is actuating properly. I am also having problems getting my log reports to work. It shows the log report but when I click on it, it doesn't do anything.
Can someone tell me if those two actuation tests are actuating both solenoids or it's supposed to be only 1 bank per listing? I've tried listening to which solenoid is being actuated with the car not running but I can't isolate where the clicking noise is coming from. When I actuate the solenoid, at idle, the car died. So at least one of them is actuating but I can't tell which one or both.
Is the actual values and spec values for "inlet camshaft" useful for diagnosing which is problematic? I assume that reading is supposed to indicate the minor changes in cam position that the ecu is trying to make? Help with understanding these numbers would also be appreciated.
Obviously accessing the solenoid and sensor are difficult without removing stuff and gaining access varies depending on which one you are trying to reach. My understanding for bank 2 is that the solenoid can only be accessed by removing the AC compressor (I hope I don't have to take that off again!) and intake and the sensor could be accessed underneath by removing the exhaust manifold and muffler (much easier). Are both of these assumptions correct?
I'm trying to limit how much I run the engine as I want to be able to drive it for a while for proper break in but I don't think I should do that with not being able to run higher rpms.
Thanks for the help in advance!
Camshaft position 1 deviation is +4.3 (higher than what I would have expected since timing tool fit without any resistance during the timing process but technically in spec)
Camshaft position 2 deviation is +1.3
I haven't had success understanding what the readings for actual angle for inlet camshaft and spec angle for inlet camshaft are supposed to be when operating normally or what the difference is between spec and actual. At idle these numbers are normally around 1 to 3 degrees but during my first run I would see numbers as high at 43.
FRA is running around 1
Car starts cutting out once I reve over 3k rpm and will also die occasionally at idle.
All readings are on a durametric pro
To try and isolate the problem, I know that you can actuate the cam lift solenoid through durametric. However, durametric has two actuation listings but both of the say "lift actuation for bank 1 and bank 2". So I can't tell which is controlling bank 1 and bank 2 or it is actuating both (which doesn't help me to identify if bank 2 is actuating properly. I am also having problems getting my log reports to work. It shows the log report but when I click on it, it doesn't do anything.
Can someone tell me if those two actuation tests are actuating both solenoids or it's supposed to be only 1 bank per listing? I've tried listening to which solenoid is being actuated with the car not running but I can't isolate where the clicking noise is coming from. When I actuate the solenoid, at idle, the car died. So at least one of them is actuating but I can't tell which one or both.
Is the actual values and spec values for "inlet camshaft" useful for diagnosing which is problematic? I assume that reading is supposed to indicate the minor changes in cam position that the ecu is trying to make? Help with understanding these numbers would also be appreciated.
Obviously accessing the solenoid and sensor are difficult without removing stuff and gaining access varies depending on which one you are trying to reach. My understanding for bank 2 is that the solenoid can only be accessed by removing the AC compressor (I hope I don't have to take that off again!) and intake and the sensor could be accessed underneath by removing the exhaust manifold and muffler (much easier). Are both of these assumptions correct?
I'm trying to limit how much I run the engine as I want to be able to drive it for a while for proper break in but I don't think I should do that with not being able to run higher rpms.
Thanks for the help in advance!
11-26-2020, 10:14 AM
#3
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Disconnect that solenoid and use a 9V battery to trigger it. BUT I think your problem is that the camshaft chain is off by 1 tooth. Don't panic, chances are good that the valves on bank 2 didn't bend. This happened to a fiend of mine and he was able to pull the valve cover and reset the cam timing with the engine in the car. Did you turn the engine over by hand after you put it back together (before using the starter) to make sure it freely rotated?
11-26-2020, 11:01 AM
#4
Nordschleife Master
2004 C2 - Just started up my rebuilt engine. Good news is it started right up after priming the oil. Bad new is that I'm having misfires on all of bank 2 (each cylinder throughs misfire codes) and P1325. It would seem I am having an issue with the bank 2 cam adjustment solenoid or cam sensor. I have read numerous posts on diagnosing this but have some questions. First some data:
Camshaft position 1 deviation is +4.3 (higher than what I would have expected since timing tool fit without any resistance during the timing process but technically in spec)
Camshaft position 2 deviation is +1.3
I haven't had success understanding what the readings for actual angle for inlet camshaft and spec angle for inlet camshaft are supposed to be when operating normally or what the difference is between spec and actual. At idle these numbers are normally around 1 to 3 degrees but during my first run I would see numbers as high at 43.
FRA is running around 1
Car starts cutting out once I reve over 3k rpm and will also die occasionally at idle.
All readings are on a durametric pro
To try and isolate the problem, I know that you can actuate the cam lift solenoid through durametric. However, durametric has two actuation listings but both of the say "lift actuation for bank 1 and bank 2". So I can't tell which is controlling bank 1 and bank 2 or it is actuating both (which doesn't help me to identify if bank 2 is actuating properly. I am also having problems getting my log reports to work. It shows the log report but when I click on it, it doesn't do anything.
Can someone tell me if those two actuation tests are actuating both solenoids or it's supposed to be only 1 bank per listing? I've tried listening to which solenoid is being actuated with the car not running but I can't isolate where the clicking noise is coming from. When I actuate the solenoid, at idle, the car died. So at least one of them is actuating but I can't tell which one or both.
Is the actual values and spec values for "inlet camshaft" useful for diagnosing which is problematic? I assume that reading is supposed to indicate the minor changes in cam position that the ecu is trying to make? Help with understanding these numbers would also be appreciated.
Obviously accessing the solenoid and sensor are difficult without removing stuff and gaining access varies depending on which one you are trying to reach. My understanding for bank 2 is that the solenoid can only be accessed by removing the AC compressor (I hope I don't have to take that off again!) and intake and the sensor could be accessed underneath by removing the exhaust manifold and muffler (much easier). Are both of these assumptions correct?
I'm trying to limit how much I run the engine as I want to be able to drive it for a while for proper break in but I don't think I should do that with not being able to run higher rpms.
Thanks for the help in advance!
Camshaft position 1 deviation is +4.3 (higher than what I would have expected since timing tool fit without any resistance during the timing process but technically in spec)
Camshaft position 2 deviation is +1.3
I haven't had success understanding what the readings for actual angle for inlet camshaft and spec angle for inlet camshaft are supposed to be when operating normally or what the difference is between spec and actual. At idle these numbers are normally around 1 to 3 degrees but during my first run I would see numbers as high at 43.
FRA is running around 1
Car starts cutting out once I reve over 3k rpm and will also die occasionally at idle.
All readings are on a durametric pro
To try and isolate the problem, I know that you can actuate the cam lift solenoid through durametric. However, durametric has two actuation listings but both of the say "lift actuation for bank 1 and bank 2". So I can't tell which is controlling bank 1 and bank 2 or it is actuating both (which doesn't help me to identify if bank 2 is actuating properly. I am also having problems getting my log reports to work. It shows the log report but when I click on it, it doesn't do anything.
Can someone tell me if those two actuation tests are actuating both solenoids or it's supposed to be only 1 bank per listing? I've tried listening to which solenoid is being actuated with the car not running but I can't isolate where the clicking noise is coming from. When I actuate the solenoid, at idle, the car died. So at least one of them is actuating but I can't tell which one or both.
Is the actual values and spec values for "inlet camshaft" useful for diagnosing which is problematic? I assume that reading is supposed to indicate the minor changes in cam position that the ecu is trying to make? Help with understanding these numbers would also be appreciated.
Obviously accessing the solenoid and sensor are difficult without removing stuff and gaining access varies depending on which one you are trying to reach. My understanding for bank 2 is that the solenoid can only be accessed by removing the AC compressor (I hope I don't have to take that off again!) and intake and the sensor could be accessed underneath by removing the exhaust manifold and muffler (much easier). Are both of these assumptions correct?
I'm trying to limit how much I run the engine as I want to be able to drive it for a while for proper break in but I don't think I should do that with not being able to run higher rpms.
Thanks for the help in advance!
11-26-2020, 02:07 PM
#5
I am confident the timing was done correctly. After timing, I verified by rotating the engine 360 degrees at at time alternately checking bank 1 and 2 to make sure that when the timing tool fit in one bank at TDC it did not fit in the other bank. I rotated it over 7 times alternately checking banks with the timing tool and it was consistent. I also double checked by using my finger to feel the valve movement to make sure that the valves were moving in the correct firing order as the engine rotated.
12-29-2020, 05:12 PM
#7
An update on this for anyone in the future searching for fixes.
Running durametric, I could see that the "Spec angle for inlet camshaft" and "Actual angle for inlet camshaft" were not following each other. Spec angle is what the ecu is the specified angle and actual is actual, so they should track fairly closely. The actual angle showed no change at low rpms and then jumped to a retarded position at high rpms (but again not matching the spec angle). I decided to switch the cam adjustment actuator/solenoid between banks thinking that maybe it was sticking or some kind of blockage when I happened to notice the wire/plug for the lift solenoid and the cam position solenoid crossed each other. Long story short, somewhere along the line, I had swapped the lift solenoid plug for the cam adjustment solenoid plug. I verified this looking at the color coding of the wires per the wiring diagram. I switched the plugs and took if for a 30 mile first drive, no codes and it ran awesome!
So the sudden jump in actual angle at higher rpms was the adjustment solenoid receiving voltage from the lift solenoid plug trying to kick in the variocam +.
Also, removing bank 2 cam adjustment solenoid and lift solenoid can easily done by dropping the engine to the end of the engine mount bolt (removing air intake box and removing the O2 sensor cables from their clips to give the wires room). This drops the engine enough to get a relatively straight shot at the two bolts holding in the solenoids. I had the muffler and heat shield off of bank 2 but did not have to remove the muffler bracket).
Skip/Porsche Tech3, thanks for pointing out the discrepancy in the spec//actual inlet cam position values!
Running durametric, I could see that the "Spec angle for inlet camshaft" and "Actual angle for inlet camshaft" were not following each other. Spec angle is what the ecu is the specified angle and actual is actual, so they should track fairly closely. The actual angle showed no change at low rpms and then jumped to a retarded position at high rpms (but again not matching the spec angle). I decided to switch the cam adjustment actuator/solenoid between banks thinking that maybe it was sticking or some kind of blockage when I happened to notice the wire/plug for the lift solenoid and the cam position solenoid crossed each other. Long story short, somewhere along the line, I had swapped the lift solenoid plug for the cam adjustment solenoid plug. I verified this looking at the color coding of the wires per the wiring diagram. I switched the plugs and took if for a 30 mile first drive, no codes and it ran awesome!
So the sudden jump in actual angle at higher rpms was the adjustment solenoid receiving voltage from the lift solenoid plug trying to kick in the variocam +.
Also, removing bank 2 cam adjustment solenoid and lift solenoid can easily done by dropping the engine to the end of the engine mount bolt (removing air intake box and removing the O2 sensor cables from their clips to give the wires room). This drops the engine enough to get a relatively straight shot at the two bolts holding in the solenoids. I had the muffler and heat shield off of bank 2 but did not have to remove the muffler bracket).
Skip/Porsche Tech3, thanks for pointing out the discrepancy in the spec//actual inlet cam position values!
The following 2 users liked this post by danielcooper9:
Mike Murphy (12-30-2020),
Porschetech3 (12-30-2020)
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12-29-2020, 06:05 PM
#8
Rennlist Member
Awesome ending! I love when a thread finishes with a positive outcome and a sensible explanation! Yay!
The following users liked this post:
Mike Murphy (12-30-2020)
12-30-2020, 01:15 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
The symptoms and data were mechanical faults, but the "root cause" was electrical crossed circuit !!
You deserve credit for noticing the wire plug lengths....
12-30-2020, 02:04 PM
#10
Race Car
I had a similar issue when I did an engine swap on a VW, putting a much newer engine in an older car. The wiring diagrams in the Bentley book were wrong (not the first time I have found errors in these wiring diagrams either), so I had interchanged the intake and exhaust camshaft timing adjuster solenoids. It ran OK for exactly 8 seconds, then when the ECU/DME tried to adjust the intake cam it ran horrible - though it did not throw any codes. I eventually figured it out when I was looking in a different section of the Bentley and looked at a different wiring diagram.