moosetaco

I’d recommend reading this entire page:
https://lnengineering.com/products/i...7-engines.html

Cliffs Notes: scroll about two third of the way down to get to the “service interval” of their bearings.

plpete84

moosetaco - that's perfect. Didn't know there were options that can be used for a number of years and the lifetime version! Very cool.

Pretty broad question and hard to give a specific answer to but as I look at various sold listings and current prices, what experience has everyone had when it came to negotiating the price? I know this will depend on factors like options, mileage, IMS/RMS done, having records and etc, but with that said, 996 is not an uber rare car and there are tons of them out there....unless you're looking at something specific or like Targa, GT cars and etc. Porsche also tend to hold their values and can appreciate and I'm not sure how good of a resource KBB can be for this. I'm asking as in some cases I'm seeing pricing pretty all over the place for cars that are not that different. How much has everyone been able to knock off the asking price or how many paid the asking because it was worth it. Also, very familiar with the saying "nothing is more expensive than a cheap Porsche" so not looking to buy the least expensive. Genuinely curious how things work when it comes to these cars having zero experience.

Dr_Strangelove

I wouldn't call myself a shrewd negotiator but I have had success paying the price I'd like to pay by simply putting it out there as a firm offer with a check in hand. Generally something like "Hi Seller, I really like your 996 quite a bit. I'm willing to give you $2x,xxx for it, pending no major mechanical issues are found during inspection." I feel like there's so many tire kickers out there just having someone making an offer, even an offer with contingencies is a breath of fresh air.

The car in my avatar was not local to me, so I offered exactly the dealer's asking price as an "out the door" price (make selling price and taxes equal advertised price,) with covered transportation to Las Vegas included. So I'd say I "saved" a couple grand but not conventionally.

plpete84

Fantastic advice! I was successfully able to knock off a grand when buying my GS by offering what I thought was a fair price and stating why. I think making it easy for the seller is key, especially when they deal with tire kickers, as you mentioned.

I've purchased from dealers in the past and there was always something so I'd much prefer to deal with a private seller but we will see what turns up. The nice thing that I have seen more often than not is that most (not all) Porsche owners do a reasonable job and maintaining the car and keeping records which is refreshing and a tremendous value add to me. Not a shrewd negotiator either but being in sales I certainly appreciate it keeping it direct and simple.

Billup

Negotiating is honestly much like any other car, the better educated you are when you go in, the better off you'll be with the end results. Everything you noted definitely makes a difference, C2/C4/C4S, aero/non-aero, well documented vs none, mileage, and what preventative maintenance has been done. Because of all this I wouldn't put too much weight on a KBB valuation because there are examples that can fetch both much higher and lower. Similar to Dr.Stange I was pretty much set on paying for what the dealership was selling it for, however I was able to negotiate knocking off a chunk of the "administrative" fees. It really depends on how serious of a buyer you are.

Best thing I can say is just look around for comparable models to what you truly want and use that as a starting place. There's a lot of variables to factor that can swing the price within a pretty broad spectrum.

wsrgklt

I think you should substitute bore scoring for RMS as a primary concern.

RMS can be addressed along with the IMS and clutch for $3-4k. And at the end of the day, it’s an oil leak.

Bore scoring is a full engine rebuild to the tune of $12-20k. My #1 piece of advice is to pay for the full drop-the-oil pan inspection for any car you are considering, unless it’s had the block replaced or sleeved recently. It seems like a lot of money to spend, relative to the purchase price of these cars. But it’s less expensive (and painful) than finding out you need to rebuild the engine just a couple of months into ownership. Ask me how I know.

golock911

Ditto the bore scoring inspection. These engines are old enough now that the next long term wear issue is showing. Depending on a number of factors, the engine will develop it, leaky injectors, poor oil maintenance, poor fuel, and some others...

Don't let us scare you away, though. These are amazing cars!

plpete84

wsrgklt - that's a very good point. I need to finish watching those videos on bore scoring. Is getting a bore scope something that would give a relatively good idea at the shape of the engine? It's definitely something that scares me a bit given the cost to fix it. I'm curious if it's one of those things that can appear if the car wasn't driven much and had irregular oil changes or something that is a bit more of an issue as you get higher in miles? Given that the car I'd be getting would be probably 65k+ miles I'm curious how serious is the issue.

golock911 - just trying my best to learn and not step in a proverbial pile of sh** They're definitely a blast to drive! I'm hoping that buying a car from forums or something like a PCA member might yield a healthier example!

Dr_Strangelove

I think if you approach the purchasing phase seriously and are firm and fair with your offer it will be an easy deal. Even someone selling a car privately is dealing with nonstop hagglers and probably scammers to boot. Hell, I read an article on The Drive today about a guy who bought a 991.2 turbo from a dealer with a check HE PRINTED HIMSELF.

So, my point is, be realistic, don't be afraid to show genuine interest in the car if you are genuinely interested in it. It's a myth that you have to pretend you don't want it.

plpete84

Thanks Dr_Strangelove - valid points and how I typically buy and sell. Make a move or move over.

I watched the series on Bore Scoring you recommended and now I'm a bit paranoid, so thank you hah. It seems like there isn't a straight answer to the issue and a combination of factors can cause it. Even if you do everything right. Outside of a bore scope, one thing that I found to be a great indicator is a regular oil analysis. They did show one where there was a significant spike in a particular particle found in the oil that indicated that bore scoring could be happening. I saw a car for sale right up my alley that had these records with very steady numbers. Seems like outside of dropping the oil pan, bore scope and oil analysis are 2 great not overly invasive diagnostics to do.

wsrgklt

Just keep in mind that scoping through the top of the cylinders will only show late stage scoring. It usually starts from the bottom of the bore and that’s why dropping the pan to take a look is the recommended way to inspect.

plpete84

Ah yes, you're right about that. I think it's something worth doing with the right car if that's the last thing holding back the purchase. Or I could just roll the dice...

wsrgklt

Everyone has to make their own risk assessment based on personal circumstances. I rolled the dice and lost, but I had $15k in the bank that I could spend without affecting my family too much.

Mike Murphy

I rolled the dice on mine, but ended up having a couple of cylinders checked out anyway, later on, along with the sump plate being dropped.

In my mind, getting a 996/997 bore scoped is like going to get a physical with full bloodwork done at the labs. It’s no fun, downright uncomfortable at times, costs time and money, and there’s a lot out there to be afraid of - and a lot of things that can kill you - but it sure feels good to get the results back that says “normal, healthy” than to lay in bed at night wondering about it.

Mike Murphy

This is sound advice if it weren’t for the fact that some sellers hide scored bores with some oil additives prior to selling the car. It’s only after a few hundred miles that the new owner realizes the issue was there prior to them buying it.

Not trying to scare you; just the way some people roll. Even the dealer may or may not know they’ve been screwed and may accidentally screw someone else.