808Bill

Yup, and that's why I bought one with a blown engine and then rolled the dice on used motor with low miles that's been a solid gamble...I now have an FSI build at the end of the year for the blown engine.
I'll be looking for another (.2) roller later next year.
Fantastic cars for the money!

Pete, with your budget I'd seriously consider one of the FSI built cars for a little more.

plpete84

Mike - thanks for that feedback. When dealing with most dealers I assume they know nothing about the car. There are always some questions you can ask to see if they even have a clue about the car. It really seems to me like a matter of when and not if with the scoring. I'd be curious what data looks like on owners that experienced this and how many have been fine. I bet there is also a percentage of people that just don't know. With the IMS, when it fails, you definitely know it.

Bill - I'll be looking to spend around $25ish K and try to stay below $30k. At $30k I've been seeing some 997 models out there with similar mileage but the 996 almost seems like a better proposition if for an IMS that's "easier" to service and 997 not being immune to bore scoring as well. I don't think either of those issues go away till 997.2 with the direct injected motor. Taking your approach would be awesome and a great experience but I'm limited for space to be able to do a full engine rebuild.

plpete84

BTW, thanks everyone for the input and guidance! I'm sure these threads pop up every so often and I appreciate the different points of view that come up and help in making the right decision! I'm not scared off yet but want to get into it with a clear understanding of the platform.

Optionman1

Even the 997.2 are subject to bore scoring, notwithstanding the new 9a1 direct injection engine. Not on the scale of the 996 but then again they are not as old. Good luck with your search.

plpete84

Wowza, between scraping this forum for information and the recent $41k Targa thread the learning process and the search is proving to be pretty fun hah! It looks like I may be looking at a potential car soon. It sounds like a very attractive proposition based on the notes from the seller:

• I purchased the car on December 26, 2015 from a Porsche dealer in Columbus, OH...mileage 88,258...I took delivery on 12/31/2015...
• I did not use the car for three months from (January 1, 2016 to March 31 2016) while we “snow birded” in Naples FL...
• I have used her as my daily personal vehicle since purchase including four trips to Naples, FL down and back...
• Early summer of 2016, about six months after purchase, it appeared to be using about a quart of oil / 1200 miles...no signs of smoke
• Additionally the engine had slight ticking noise, with me being a worry wart, I took her to my Porsche Mechanic...said oil use was normal, BMW’s and Mercedes did the same...
• Other than those concerns the car ran fine, but due to the constant fear of IMS failure, I asked him to further investigate...
• He bore scoped (I think), found two cylinders (suspect only), but decided to rebuild...took out of service in July 2016, mileage 96,565, (8,307 miles) after my purchase...
• In August 2016...shop removed the engine, cases sent to LN Engineering, bored to 3.8, installed Nikosol sleeves...replaced IMS w/Single Row Pro...one year warranty...
• LN Engineering returned cases, heads were resurfaced, including valve job, tested, and placed back in service...the car has run without incident since...
• Rebuild complete with two pages of parts, including the Air Oil Separator, with the Oil Pressure switch replaced June in 2019...Oil Changes with Mobil One...
• I drive this car on a daily basis...moved to Naples, FL in May 2017...and returned to Pennsylvania in June 2019...car runs great...a few cosmetic issues...
• Present mileage is approximately 127,820 with only 31,000 miles on engine...overall it’s a sixteen year old car averaging only 7,900 driven miles/year...
• Four New General Performance Tires in April...clutch is fine...brakes are about 40%...needs Emission Filter...Drivers Seat Back leather is cracking...needs Detailing...

I still want to do a PPI and obviously ask to see receipts to prove the engine work. With all this done, would it still be wise to drop the oil sump and look into "the soul of the engine" or is it a moot point now? What are some other PPI items to pay attention to? My guess, given the mileage on the chassis, would be the suspension bits. Not sure what the emission filter is. Given the LN cases and IMS done (pending proof by invoice) this is looking like a no brainer if no rust. It falls within my price range as well. The potentially big bonus is that the car has the X51 power package which I believe improved some of the oil and cooling issues. What are your thoughts here?

Dr_Strangelove

Green light with a PPI. No need to pay for bore scoping If they can prove the Nikasil bores with paper.

Fingers crossed for you Peter!

plpete84

Thanks @Dr_Strangelove . That's what I was thinking as well.

There is one issue with the car that I was able to learn and it will cause it to fail emissions. It has to do with the Emissions Filter. The code that was mentioned to me was P0045. A quick google search told me this is specific to a boost issue with turbo models but obviously this is not a turbo. The owner said it has to do with emissions leak in a canister or charcoal filter next to the fuel filler. Can someone confirm this?

The only other issue has to do with the "terms of the purchase" The seller seems to have his time wasted by tire kickers and the car has been for sale for almost a year. He is insisting on a good will deposit, which would be non-refundable. I plan to see the car soon and am obviously ok paying for the PPI but in the worst case scenario where I pass I'll be out the PPI cost, which I expect, plus the deposit, whether it's $500 or $1000. I've bought cars before but have not come across this before. I'm optimistic but cautious.

Dr_Strangelove

Hmm. Big yikes. Ancient wisdom says you need to buy both the seller and the car. In my humblest of opinions - I think you should be treated the same way I was and a PPI should be enough skin in the game to prove you are a serious buyer. Ask the seller if he will consider this and perhaps offer to share the findings with him at your cost. To me that is much more than enough good will.

Dr_Strangelove

Oh, and absolutely do not pay the nonrefundable deposit before you do any more business with this person. The idea is asinine. There are too many sweet 996's out there for you without those terms. With 3.8's if you so desire. The market is very fluid.

golock911

Agreed that Nikasil sleeves is part of the engine reliability fix. Do people do invasive PPI on Nikasil engines? I don't know. If the car hasn't moved in a year, something is scaring people away. Yes, tire kickers are a problem, but not for a year. Hopefully the PPI comes back with more info on the code, like xxx vacuum leak. Good luck !

plpete84

Thanks golock911! Dr_Strangelove, your reasoning definitely makes sense and that's what I'm leading with. We all hope that the seller will be honest, but seeing recently what can happen, paying a non-refundable deposit on top of a PPI is a no-go. Having said that I think I might be able to perform my own PPI without the need for any deposits. It seems like the good will deposit is required if I want to have a PPI done at a shop. This makes me wonder if the seller is trying to hide something? I've been working on my own cars for years and have always performed my own PPIs on cars I purchased before. In the last 3 months I have also driven around 1700 miles in my friends well kept 996 C4S so I know what a well sorted car sounds and feels like. I may take him on the option and perform my own PPI to start with to get a base feel for the car and review all the service and engine build records. Just need to source access to a Durametric (I live in DC). With my own PPI I have nothing to loose if I end up not buying. Maybe I can still convince him otherwise.

Only other concern is that code that is causing the emissions issue. If it's some minor charcoal canister issue then that's not bad. Just don't want to be replacing a cat or something else major. Engine wise with 31k miles on the Nickies rebuild things should be fine, again given proper rebuild and service records. Because rest of the car has closer to 126k miles, I know the suspension bits will need a closer look as well as other underbody parts that could be rusted through. Besides other consumables, like brakes, what are some other things I need to focus on?

I want to give this car a look, if it's for experience sake and to start looking at what's out there. I'm keeping my expectations realistic knowing that if not this one, then there are more 996s popping up all the time. If it does work out then that's fantastic. The real reason I want to give it a look is the rebuilt engine, which is the attractive part here eliminating the concern for bore scoring and IMS. Something I wouldn't have to worry about for foreseeable future.

ArcticOne

You could benefit by finding out if the emissions related code is a minor fix or something more major. I did not do that in buying an E46 BMW and trusted the Seller's comment that the code merely indicated a faulty gas cap. A year later I am still trying to track down the issue. Its not a biggie, but something that could end being an expensive surprise.

Good luck with your hunt.

I am in Canada and presently considering a 99 C2 with 145,000 KM for $25,000. Flipping the brain through the decision making process is not always fun. Am glad you shared your experience as I have the same concerns and questions as you.

jb

plpete84

Good luck with your search ArcticOne! It can be time consuming and a bit stressful but I enjoy the thrill of the chase and search.

I usually go in to anything like that with trust but verify, so I will definitely be scanning the car for this and any other codes. I'm not too concerned with over revs as the owner is an older gentleman in his late 50s or early 60's so I doubt he's been redlining and doing money shifts. It was his bucket list car.

golock911

I don't know about any of you other mature gentlemen(56), but I plan on redlining until I'm at least 90... I actually did it the other day missing a shift off the on-ramp camera green.

plpete84

haha love it and no offense meant!