Replacement M96 DIY engines under 10k
#76
Rennlist Member
The rods should be checked for size, concentricity, and inspected for casting, forging or machine flaws, which should be deburred, but yes you can just slap parts together too. In some cases removing the old bolts can damage the rods too. These engines are now pretty high use and mileage, double check everything and take nothing for granted.
#77
Rennlist Member
Go read any legitimate book on engine rebuilding and report back. I bet you think every car modification is a “bolt on” too. Or we can just agree I wouldn’t want you working on any of my cars.
#78
Rennlist Member
Well they seem to be working fine in my engine I rebuilt 10 yrs. ago with 65,000 miles since then. My 2000 Boxster can outrun your 996.
Last edited by Byprodriver; 12-28-2019 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Additional education
#79
Rennlist Member
He is correct. You cannot resize the stock rods. And yes, we have been replacing the stock Porsche rods bolts with ARPs for well over a decade. If you measure the housing bore with the stock rod bolts torqued vs ARPs, they measure exactly the same. A book won't tell you that.
#80
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
#81
Rennlist Member
He is correct. You cannot resize the stock rods. And yes, we have been replacing the stock Porsche rods bolts with ARPs for well over a decade. If you measure the housing bore with the stock rod bolts torqued vs ARPs, they measure exactly the same. A book won't tell you that.
There are mechanics in the world and parts changers.....
I’ve never assembled any plain bearing without taking measurements.... engines, refrigeration units, steam turbines....
Yes you can skip steps, and maybe you get lucky. Maybe you get a rod thrown out the side of the block.
Either way the assumption you can just reuse the rods, change the bolts and not check anything can lead to a short lived engine.
#82
Rennlist Member
Come in Charles, you know that a good rebuild guide will tell you to measure the bores and check for concentricity. Sure YOU CAN skip this step, but why would you? Do you assume that all factory rods are good to go no need to check? On a $10k plus rebuild?
There are mechanics in the world and parts changers.....
I’ve never assembled any plain bearing without taking measurements.... engines, refrigeration units, steam turbines....
Yes you can skip steps, and maybe you get lucky. Maybe you get a rod thrown out the side of the block.
Either way the assumption you can just reuse the rods, change the bolts and not check anything can lead to a short lived engine.
There are mechanics in the world and parts changers.....
I’ve never assembled any plain bearing without taking measurements.... engines, refrigeration units, steam turbines....
Yes you can skip steps, and maybe you get lucky. Maybe you get a rod thrown out the side of the block.
Either way the assumption you can just reuse the rods, change the bolts and not check anything can lead to a short lived engine.
#83
Rennlist Member
Come in Charles, you know that a good rebuild guide will tell you to measure the bores and check for concentricity. Sure YOU CAN skip this step, but why would you? Do you assume that all factory rods are good to go no need to check? On a $10k plus rebuild?
There are mechanics in the world and parts changers.....
I’ve never assembled any plain bearing without taking measurements.... engines, refrigeration units, steam turbines....
Yes you can skip steps, and maybe you get lucky. Maybe you get a rod thrown out the side of the block.
Either way the assumption you can just reuse the rods, change the bolts and not check anything can lead to a short lived engine.
There are mechanics in the world and parts changers.....
I’ve never assembled any plain bearing without taking measurements.... engines, refrigeration units, steam turbines....
Yes you can skip steps, and maybe you get lucky. Maybe you get a rod thrown out the side of the block.
Either way the assumption you can just reuse the rods, change the bolts and not check anything can lead to a short lived engine.
#84
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Parts or labor warranties are for material and craftsmanship only. It can get very complicated if the primary cause of failure is hard to determine. For example; if a $10 warranteed part inside an engine that has failed, the chain reaction and collateral damage would sometimes make it hard to determine what actually started the chain-reaction, and the warranty would be limited to the $10 dollar part anyway and not the collateral damage.
But in the case of a complete short block or bottom end overhaul, it may be easier to determine the cause of failure. It could be due to overheating, low on oil, over-reving (which would not be covered) or due to a covered part (like an IMSB). that would be covered. In the case of a Porsche shortblock, if installed by a non-Porsche authorized service center, any concerns must be inspected by an authorized Porsche Center before any repair attempts are made, then shortblock replaced for labor only for 2 years unlimited miles. If installed by authorized Porsche Center, parts and labor both are covered for 2 years unlimited miles.
If an authorized Porsche Center "rebuilt" an engine using all Genuine Porsche Parts, it also would be covered by warranty for 2 years unlimited mileage, but if a failure were to happen ,whether the dealer or Porsche was responsible for the warranty would be between them. If determined that a Porsche part failed, Porsche would pay all parts and the dealers labor, if determined the Porsche Tech was at fault, the Dealer would have to eat it, if undetermined, the Dealer would eat labor, and Porsche would supply the parts.
As far as warranties from other shops or companies, it can vary greatly. In my state (Alabama) a shop doesn't "have" to warrant any labor, but they normally do. (if not posted or in writing on the the receipt, then it would be at their discretion to protect their reputation) Parts suppliers do have to supply a consumer limited warranty..So, if you are concerned with warranty, you should check with the place you're dealing with.
Last edited by Porschetech3; 12-30-2019 at 05:43 PM.
#85
Rennlist Member
I thought I would throw together a basic path that would satisfy many DIY'ers for a 3.4 and also for a 3.6 M96.
Costs include a factory short block, sending the heads to a head service, complete gasket kit with all seals /o-rings/bolts ect. plus Loctite 5900. ( actually will have a few seals left over like front/rear main, water pump)
Head service would include cleaning, pressure testing, basic 3 angle valve job, new seals, light machining to ensure trueness cost is normally $250 each head..YMMV
This would take care of the engine internals, of course any worn out external parts coils,plugs, AOS ect, repair as necessary..
And you supply the labor.
M96/01 /02 /04 from 99-2001 3.4
996-100-951-TX Porsche factory short block from Auto Atlanta $6305.60
996-105-253-00 Vario cam guides from Auto Atlanta $21.66 need 2 sets
#1364363-M9601SET complete gasket set/bolts ect. from AutohausAZ $475.25
Part# 000-043-204-35-M258 Loctite 5900 from Pelican parts $14.00
$6838.26 parts
$500.00 cylinder head service
Total $7338.26 + your labor
M96/03 2002-2004 3.6
996100996UX Porsche factory short block from Auto Atlanta $7669.08
100904202 - O.E.M. M96.03 SET complete gasket set / bolts ect from Pelican Parts $660.75
Part# 000-043-204-35-M258 Loctite 5900 from Pelican parts $14.00
$8343.83 parts
$500.00 cylinder head service
Total $8843.83 + your labor
A much better alternative than buying a used engine IMHO
Costs include a factory short block, sending the heads to a head service, complete gasket kit with all seals /o-rings/bolts ect. plus Loctite 5900. ( actually will have a few seals left over like front/rear main, water pump)
Head service would include cleaning, pressure testing, basic 3 angle valve job, new seals, light machining to ensure trueness cost is normally $250 each head..YMMV
This would take care of the engine internals, of course any worn out external parts coils,plugs, AOS ect, repair as necessary..
And you supply the labor.
M96/01 /02 /04 from 99-2001 3.4
996-100-951-TX Porsche factory short block from Auto Atlanta $6305.60
996-105-253-00 Vario cam guides from Auto Atlanta $21.66 need 2 sets
#1364363-M9601SET complete gasket set/bolts ect. from AutohausAZ $475.25
Part# 000-043-204-35-M258 Loctite 5900 from Pelican parts $14.00
$6838.26 parts
$500.00 cylinder head service
Total $7338.26 + your labor
M96/03 2002-2004 3.6
996100996UX Porsche factory short block from Auto Atlanta $7669.08
100904202 - O.E.M. M96.03 SET complete gasket set / bolts ect from Pelican Parts $660.75
Part# 000-043-204-35-M258 Loctite 5900 from Pelican parts $14.00
$8343.83 parts
$500.00 cylinder head service
Total $8843.83 + your labor
A much better alternative than buying a used engine IMHO
#86
Rennlist Member
#88
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
That put the 3.4 at just under 10k for a DIY, and the 3.6 at over the 10k DIY price point !!
They must be getting in short supply, I have had Auto Atlanta backorder my hoses for the UAOS twice in the last month or so. They are late right now on an order for the UAOS, I am fixing to call them and complain..
#89
Rennlist Member
Looks like the 3.4 and the 3.6 short block both have had a price jump !!
That put the 3.4 at just under 10k for a DIY, and the 3.6 at over the 10k DIY price point !!
They must be getting in short supply, I have had Auto Atlanta backorder my hoses for the UAOS twice in the last month or so. They are late right now on an order for the UAOS, I am fixing to call them and complain..
That put the 3.4 at just under 10k for a DIY, and the 3.6 at over the 10k DIY price point !!
They must be getting in short supply, I have had Auto Atlanta backorder my hoses for the UAOS twice in the last month or so. They are late right now on an order for the UAOS, I am fixing to call them and complain..
#90
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Right, Their parts look-up is great for user friendly and getting the correct part number, and their prices are good , but they list stuff that they don't have in stock, and don't notify you when they are drop shipping or have backordered something..