Rdrcr

Can't wait!

Mike

Porschetech3

Is your engine not doing well after all the work you just had done on it? Something ailing it ?

Are you going to build it yourself this time?

Porschetech3

I thought I would post Hartech's rebuild prices here and do a "Pound to Dollar conversion" for people here in the US to compare prices. Shipping would be a big deterrent for most people in the US, but those over the pond won't have that issue. Seems these services could easily produce a DIY for under 10k. Some of the prices could use a little more clarification, but overall pretty straightforward.

I noticed Hartech basic head service is $245, very close to the estimate I used ($250) in above DIY rebuild cost lists..

Porsche Boxster Engine Problem Costs/Porsche 911 Engine Problem Prices/Porsche Cayman Engine Fault Costs:

No two re-builds are exactly the same, but as a starting point the common Porsche engine issues of this nature all require a re-build so we have a starting price for a basic 911 engine rebuild, Boxster engine rebuild, & Cayman engine rebuild;

Base Engine Rebuild (Engine Only): £2300 + VAT ( $2930usd + $230)
Comprising of: Strip engine, clean & prepare for re-build, re-assemble with all new gaskets/seals (except valve stem oil seals at this stage).

Base Engine Rebuild (Car & Engine): £3600 + VAT ( $4586usd + $458.60)

Comprising of: Remove engine & gearbox assembly, remove ancillaries and strip to long motor, strip engine, clean & prepare for re-build, re-assemble with all new gaskets/seals (except valve stem oil seals at this stage), strip & check induction system for debris, re-assemble induction system & fit to engine, re-fit all ancillaries, re-fit engine & gearbox assembly to car, get running with new Porsche approved oil, filter, coolant, power steering fluid, carry out air conditioning re-gas if needed & thoroughly road test (several journeys covering around 50 miles) & check over. A rolling road facility is currently being installed to offer an additional alternative test facility.

This initial Porsche engine re-build price doesn't cover the cost of the internals needed to repair the damage such as the 997 scored cylinder or Boxster IMS bearing failure so additional costs are then applied to address the actual engine issue. We operate a flexible pricing system and we're happy to discuss common scenarios but the table below covers typical areas:

Option a) 1 x New Cylinder : £600 + VAT ( $764usd + $76.40)
Hartech closed deck aluminium alloy cylinder with Nikasil plating fitted to a stripped engine.

Option b) 2 x New Cylinders (In Same Half): £1100 + VAT ( $1401.40usd + $140.14)
Hartech closed deck aluminium alloy cylinders with Nikasil plating fitted to a stripped engine.

Option c) 3 x New Cylinders (In Same Half): £1400 + VAT ($1783.60usd + $178.36)
Hartech closed deck aluminium alloy cylinders with Nikasil plating fitted to a stripped engine.

Option d) 6 x New Cylinders: £2500 + VAT ( $3185usd + $318)
Hartech closed deck aluminium alloy cylinders with Nikiski plating fitted to a stripped engine.

New Latest Design Porsche Intermediate Shaft: From £800 + VAT ( $1019.20usd + $101.92)

New Intermediate Shaft Bearing & Stronger Spindle: £150 + VAT ($191.10usd + $19.11)
Fitted to intermediate shaft from stripped engine.

New Crank Shaft Bearing Set: From £125 + VAT ( $159.25usd + $15.93)

New Timing Chain Set: From £280 + VAT ( $356.72usd + $35.67)

New Piston: From £210 + VAT ($267.54usd + $26.74)

Strengthen/Re-Round Existing Cylinder: £100 + VAT ( $127.40usd + $12.70)
Re-round cylinder (as far as possible) and fit closed deck strengthening section. (New Nikiski plated cylinders already have this feature).

Basic Cylinder Head Overhaul: £175 + VAT ($222.95usd + $22.30)

JTT

Hartech do have a vendor in Canada (Alpine Autowerks in Calgary) that use their system, just so people are aware. Not sure on Canadian pricing, but shipping would be different.

yelcab

They have great pricing in the UK, and I don't know why that is. Same for Ferrari servicing as well. They must all work for $50 an hour. In the Bay area, you cannot machine two heads for a mere $250.

Mechanics at Carlsen Porsche charge $245 per hour for their work.

bpoteat

It's such a big difference, if I needed a rebuild it seems like almost worth comparing those prices even with the cost of overseas shipping, VAT, etc.

996.2

Porschetech are those current prices? I was planning on making a post later today regarding Hartech, they are unique one of a kind company.

hatchetf15

bpoteat-I explored the option to send engine to Hartech. ‘Difficult’ is mildly understating. Unless you’re versed in shipping pallets by boat to EU, customs on both sides, etc; daunting and expensive. I contacted three different companies and best rates were approximately $1,000 each way, minus taxes and customs fees. Shipping the car to Calgary would be much cheaper.

It has been my experience that anyone and everyone who deals with Baz and his people at Hartech are never disappointed. I’ve called to ask questions or get data and someone is always available, in short order, to get with me. The reams of research Hartech has done on the M96/97 system is an invaluable resource for adding to our personal knowledge bases. The hordes of owners on 911uk sing praises much like we do about Flat 6 Innovations.

Rdrcr

Everything is good with the engine repair. The engine performs and the car is driving fantastic!
However, I'm definitely interested in learning more about building a M96 and perhaps in the future, I'll build my own for this car or another.

Mike

Porschetech3

Yes, those prices are from their current website. I noticed a price increase in the cylinder support rings, used to 60gbp each, now it is 100gbp each.

Good to hear !!

996.2

Barry Hart designed and built engines from scratch for a living and his company is one of the top M96 rebuilders in the world, so information he provides is of the highest credibility. He wrote a long paper and the link is below pages 118 to 159 starting at "General Problems". Following is my summary of his paper as I understood it:

Mr. Hart says it appears Porsche used the same molds for 3.2, 3.4 and 3.6 engines, and these had a new cylinder liner "Lokasil" a metal matrix composite cast into the block. The Lokasil takes up roughly half the cylinder wall thickness and is not as rigid as the supporting aluminum shell. 3.2 engines have thick enough aluminum outer support to retain dimensions as manufactured, but 3.4 and 3.6 having larger bores and the same size outer shell the aluminum wall was too thin allowing distortion to an oval shape. This happens in apparently every engine and severity depends on hours run and pressure in the cylinder (wide-open throttle, climbing hills, towing, etc).

As the cylinder becomes an oval the Lokasil and its supporting aluminum crack. In every normally aspirated 996 engine

When his paper was written in January of 2008 it was believed a cylinder not yet oval can be machined at the top and a metal ring fitted, and cylinders slightly oval can be rerounded with the metal ring then installed. That procedure for six cylinders is not too expensive, but of course the engine must be removed from the vehicle and disassembled.

If too far oval or already cracked, the cylinder must be machined away and a new one installed plated with Nikasil. Expensive for one and prohibitive for all six. The good news is ovaling can be slow enough to get a normal service life out of the engine say 100k to 200k miles.

https://www.hartech.org/images/downl...rs%20Guide.pdf

Byprodriver

There is no prep for ARP rod bolts just install them. I can ship you a set for $200.

AnthonyGS

The rods should be checked for size, concentricity, and inspected for casting, forging or machine flaws, which should be deburred, but yes you can just slap parts together too. In some cases removing the old bolts can damage the rods too. These engines are now pretty high use and mileage, double check everything and take nothing for granted.

996.2

Porschetech the below was posted by Barry Hart on another forum, does it lower the cost of a complete engine?

yelcab

Curious, for home builds where the liner(s) is replaced by Hart, how does the warranty work? Even if they do the bottom end, how would they warranty the resulting job?