Metallic Chunks in Oil
03-05-2019, 05:59 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
I'd start with a letter from an attorney to the seller...Do not wait on this! The seller can deal with the company that did the oil change on his own dime!
03-05-2019, 08:40 PM
#62
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Not even by accident? When I worked for a knock-off Jiffy Lube place back in high school, we let two cars (that I remember, its been a while) start up without oil in the crankcase. They didn't run long obviously. Both times, the person driving them away asked the kid down in the pit whether there was "oil in this one" and both times the kid in the pit thought he meant another car. Neither time was I responsible, since as a high school kid I was relegated to doing the interior vacuuming, which was disgusting on multiple levels. Not on purpose, sure, but I don't think you can rule out accident.
03-05-2019, 08:46 PM
#63
Shameful Thread Killer
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
However, I proceed from some history with this. I happened to buy a truck and camper long ago from a less than honorable guy that had hidden damage to the transmission. I didn't even get 30 miles on it before it failed. I did sue, I was successful, and after almost 10 months, I finally collected from the guy. This was a CA case, and each state is different. But - for the cost of a filing fee, it's a nice Trump card to have.
03-05-2019, 09:18 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
This post has gotten off topic and i dont want to continue to do it but feel i should point some things out being in the mechanic bussiness. These are some general statements and are not the case in every situation.
Most chains and decent size shops have a lot of procedures in place to protect themselfs from lawsuits and deceptive customer. Customer are a-holes and attempt to burn shops for free repairs. Several shops have camera systems so they can review footage to show oil being drained, filters changed, and oil added. Some shops also require sign offs from the employee that they have done every step and they must write down the amount of oil added and the oil filter number. The shop i work at now requires the box top to be torn off and stapled to the work order, amount of oil added, drain plug torque and wheel torque. These procedure are not only in place to make sure we don't make a mistake but also as evidence needed to prove in court that we did our jobs. I have been to court as management and won cases due to these procedure. We never lost a case because when we messed up it was obvious and we took ownership by either fixing it or going thru our insurance company. I have been wrenching over 20 years and have seen plenty of tech make mistakes. I have also seen cars get towed in when it was obvious the customer obviously intentionally damaged the car. I agree the chances of a shop not installing an oil filter and o ring intentionally is almost non exsistant. Truthfully i cant see it even being possible for the car to run for a lengthy amount of time without the o ring. It should have been dumping oil out.
None of this really matters regardless because for several reasons. The car has changed ownership and the current owner could/would not be able to prove no one has touched the car since. 3k miles has also passed which adds to the gap of responsibility.
what matters is this poor guy got screwed. By whom, no one will ever know. I believe 100% that the previous owner knew something. At a bare minimum the PO sold it knowing it had a bad clutch (which he didn't disclose) and a bad oil leak. He either knew it all or some. Either way this poor guy got the shaft.
Most chains and decent size shops have a lot of procedures in place to protect themselfs from lawsuits and deceptive customer. Customer are a-holes and attempt to burn shops for free repairs. Several shops have camera systems so they can review footage to show oil being drained, filters changed, and oil added. Some shops also require sign offs from the employee that they have done every step and they must write down the amount of oil added and the oil filter number. The shop i work at now requires the box top to be torn off and stapled to the work order, amount of oil added, drain plug torque and wheel torque. These procedure are not only in place to make sure we don't make a mistake but also as evidence needed to prove in court that we did our jobs. I have been to court as management and won cases due to these procedure. We never lost a case because when we messed up it was obvious and we took ownership by either fixing it or going thru our insurance company. I have been wrenching over 20 years and have seen plenty of tech make mistakes. I have also seen cars get towed in when it was obvious the customer obviously intentionally damaged the car. I agree the chances of a shop not installing an oil filter and o ring intentionally is almost non exsistant. Truthfully i cant see it even being possible for the car to run for a lengthy amount of time without the o ring. It should have been dumping oil out.
None of this really matters regardless because for several reasons. The car has changed ownership and the current owner could/would not be able to prove no one has touched the car since. 3k miles has also passed which adds to the gap of responsibility.
what matters is this poor guy got screwed. By whom, no one will ever know. I believe 100% that the previous owner knew something. At a bare minimum the PO sold it knowing it had a bad clutch (which he didn't disclose) and a bad oil leak. He either knew it all or some. Either way this poor guy got the shaft.
03-05-2019, 09:57 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
Terrible story getting worse. The shop or the PO did a lot that was shady, that is for sure. I’d take them both to small claims court and you can see who the judge believes.
Not all shops are good, careful, follow procedures or even have them. That is certain too. It’s really worthwhile to do routine maintenance yourself and learn as much as possible. Knowledge allows you to find a quality mechanic for things you can’t or don’t want to do.
The only person at these types of shops making money are the owners / share holders. And you can be damn sure they want the cheapest parts and materials used for your repair and they want them installed as quickly as possible. Anyone telling you different is 1) a liar or 2) they are a great reputable shop doing quality work and making way less profit than most people think. Your job is to find #2 and recognize it when you see it. Even a chain shop franchise can be great, but it is rare. Most guys that really do it right will eventually hang up their own sign.
I stopped doing car work as a 2nd job when I got screwed by the customer. His wife thought a full day labor and machine shop time to true heads was worth parts and dinner at the yellow arches.
Not all shops are good, careful, follow procedures or even have them. That is certain too. It’s really worthwhile to do routine maintenance yourself and learn as much as possible. Knowledge allows you to find a quality mechanic for things you can’t or don’t want to do.
The only person at these types of shops making money are the owners / share holders. And you can be damn sure they want the cheapest parts and materials used for your repair and they want them installed as quickly as possible. Anyone telling you different is 1) a liar or 2) they are a great reputable shop doing quality work and making way less profit than most people think. Your job is to find #2 and recognize it when you see it. Even a chain shop franchise can be great, but it is rare. Most guys that really do it right will eventually hang up their own sign.
I stopped doing car work as a 2nd job when I got screwed by the customer. His wife thought a full day labor and machine shop time to true heads was worth parts and dinner at the yellow arches.
03-05-2019, 10:13 PM
#67
Wow, sorry to see this. I bought my 996 in September 2018 and dropped the sump cover and found parts of one of the timing chains. Jake and Flat6 were able to fix me up, replacing the chains and a lot of external (to the engine) wear items (water pump, clutch, AOS, IMSB, etc.) for low 5 figures. Since it wasn't a full engine rebuild and I'm 60 miles from the shop, Jake was gracious enough to sneak me into his schedule. Fortunately, with Jake's help I was able to avert a major disaster.
After my initial experiences with Flat6, I was so impressed with them that I took the M96 engine classes which were awesome learning experiences from the foremost experts on these engines.
Based on every experience I've had with Jake, I would trust everything he's told you above and be thankful that he contributes his priceless information to those of us on this forum.
After my initial experiences with Flat6, I was so impressed with them that I took the M96 engine classes which were awesome learning experiences from the foremost experts on these engines.
Based on every experience I've had with Jake, I would trust everything he's told you above and be thankful that he contributes his priceless information to those of us on this forum.
03-06-2019, 07:45 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
sorry but I call BS on this post: I worked at a hurry lube and the oil was always added from the top, not the kid in the pit, as a matter of fact the guy starting the car was the guy that put the oil in.
We would never forget to put a filter in a car btw. What kind of bonehead would bring a Porsche to a Jiffy Lube anyway.
I didn't read the whole thread but it is obvious the seller knew the engine was cooked and sold it without declaring.
To Strathcona: if you buy a car in Canada as is no warranty then the engine is found to have been blown I don't think you have any recourse. That is why Buyer Beware.
Karma will get this seller.
We would never forget to put a filter in a car btw. What kind of bonehead would bring a Porsche to a Jiffy Lube anyway.
I didn't read the whole thread but it is obvious the seller knew the engine was cooked and sold it without declaring.
To Strathcona: if you buy a car in Canada as is no warranty then the engine is found to have been blown I don't think you have any recourse. That is why Buyer Beware.
Karma will get this seller.
Still, our failure rate was pretty low, but idiot kids trying to get a car done in 10 minutes so maybe they can have a bite of a microwave pizza between cars will make mistakes.
03-07-2019, 10:08 AM
#69
Former Vendor
Wow, sorry to see this. I bought my 996 in September 2018 and dropped the sump cover and found parts of one of the timing chains. Jake and Flat6 were able to fix me up, replacing the chains and a lot of external (to the engine) wear items (water pump, clutch, AOS, IMSB, etc.) for low 5 figures. Since it wasn't a full engine rebuild and I'm 60 miles from the shop, Jake was gracious enough to sneak me into his schedule. Fortunately, with Jake's help I was able to avert a major disaster.
After my initial experiences with Flat6, I was so impressed with them that I took the M96 engine classes which were awesome learning experiences from the foremost experts on these engines.
Based on every experience I've had with Jake, I would trust everything he's told you above and be thankful that he contributes his priceless information to those of us on this forum.
After my initial experiences with Flat6, I was so impressed with them that I took the M96 engine classes which were awesome learning experiences from the foremost experts on these engines.
Based on every experience I've had with Jake, I would trust everything he's told you above and be thankful that he contributes his priceless information to those of us on this forum.
We just had another similar report with another 996 yesterday.. Except the poor guy got his car with a bank 1 996 block half (3.4L), and a bank 2 986S (3.2) Block half. This gave him 93mm cylinders on one side, and 96mm on the other.. A bit of a 986/996 hybrid. He had the car 2 days and had misfires from bank 2, as the chamber filling was down due to the 93mm cylinders being fitted. The seller had blown the bulb in the check engine light....
I know all of their tricks.. We’ve seen them all. I plan a Rennvision video series to show some of these, as well as how to do my version of a PPI. This PPI video will besomething we will use Amazon Video to share, as it will be one of our paid videos.
You can’t be too careful buying these cars.. A PPI from someone who has internal engine experience is a simple must... It has to happen.
03-07-2019, 11:01 AM
#70
Rennlist Member
Thanks, Sam.. You were a very lucky individual to pull the sump plate, and find that debris! That was a classic “save”!
We just had another similar report with another 996 yesterday.. Except the poor guy got his car with a bank 1 996 block half (3.4L), and a bank 2 986S (3.2) Block half. This gave him 93mm cylinders on one side, and 96mm on the other.. A bit of a 986/996 hybrid. He had the car 2 days and had misfires from bank 2, as the chamber filling was down due to the 93mm cylinders being fitted. The seller had blown the bulb in the check engine light....
I know all of their tricks.. We’ve seen them all. I plan a Rennvision video series to show some of these, as well as how to do my version of a PPI. This PPI video will besomething we will use Amazon Video to share, as it will be one of our paid videos.
You can’t be too careful buying these cars.. A PPI from someone who has internal engine experience is a simple must... It has to happen.
03-07-2019, 11:28 AM
#72
Rennlist Member
Another trick is oil filter change the day before you p u for PPI.
Drop the plate!
Get Cam Chain Timing Dev.
Buy from a PCA long time good guy member and never ever from a flipper.
Drop the plate!
Get Cam Chain Timing Dev.
Buy from a PCA long time good guy member and never ever from a flipper.
Last edited by 996AE; 03-07-2019 at 01:58 PM.
03-07-2019, 11:51 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
03-07-2019, 01:52 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
03-07-2019, 02:17 PM
#75
8th Gear
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2019
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We just had another similar report with another 996 yesterday.. Except the poor guy got his car with a bank 1 996 block half (3.4L), and a bank 2 986S (3.2) Block half. This gave him 93mm cylinders on one side, and 96mm on the other.. A bit of a 986/996 hybrid. He had the car 2 days and had misfires from bank 2, as the chamber filling was down due to the 93mm cylinders being fitted. The seller had blown the bulb in the check engine light....
I know all of their tricks.. We’ve seen them all. I plan a Rennvision video series to show some of these, as well as how to do my version of a PPI. This PPI video will besomething we will use Amazon Video to share, as it will be one of our paid videos.
You can’t be too careful buying these cars.. A PPI from someone who has internal engine experience is a simple must... It has to happen.