Metallic Chunks in Oil
03-05-2019 | 02:42 PM
#46
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,846
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From: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
The cooper came from the main or the connecting rod bearings. Mine looked like that when the couple of the main bearings were coming apart. If the engine hasn't developed a rod knock yet then there is a good chance the crankshaft and the con rods are is still salvageable. I have a feeling this will be ugly when the rest of the engine is torn down.
03-05-2019 | 02:46 PM
#47
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,846
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From: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
<NOT LEGAL ADVICE>
Sure, but the evidence of the seller that he took it to Meineke and it was OK, and the OPs evidence that the filter and ring were gone + engine damage. It is a reasonable inference to draw that the damage was caused by the missing filter, and that the filter went missing at the lube place. </END NOT LEGAL ADVICE>
I would get a lawyer.
Sure, but the evidence of the seller that he took it to Meineke and it was OK, and the OPs evidence that the filter and ring were gone + engine damage. It is a reasonable inference to draw that the damage was caused by the missing filter, and that the filter went missing at the lube place. </END NOT LEGAL ADVICE>
I would get a lawyer.
How can he prove it was the oil change shop? Anyone could have removed the filter after the car left the shop. Most of the damage was there before the filter went missing.
03-05-2019 | 02:46 PM
#48
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,968
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Well I think it's pretty likely there is some foul play here and the filter was removed to quiet down a rod knock as Jake suggested. One of the PO's might have just punched his ticket to hell or upset his Karma or whatever you believe in.
As far as who is to blame for this, it's a tough one. There's the seller who really doesn't appear to be knowledgeable about cars in general, the seller who sold him the car, and the Meineke shop who did an oil change about 3K miles ago.
I will probably call the Meineke shop and see if they will share any records of the oil change if they have any. Their sticker is in the upper left of the windshield. If they have a record of the customer requesting no filter, then I can conclude the PO knew about the issue. If they don't have record of that, the filter was either forgotten (again, WTH) or the car was tampered with after the oil change. If they noted that the car came in with no filter, I can start pointing the finger at the guy who sold it to the seller.
I can maybe ask the seller who he bought the car from (somewhere in FL according to carfax) but trying to pin any blame on them is probably going to be much tougher.
In the end, I don't think I have much of a chance of actually receiving any compensation. Too many players involved. It just might cause a little more hair pulling than I already did last night when my engine received the death certificate.
As far as who is to blame for this, it's a tough one. There's the seller who really doesn't appear to be knowledgeable about cars in general, the seller who sold him the car, and the Meineke shop who did an oil change about 3K miles ago.
I will probably call the Meineke shop and see if they will share any records of the oil change if they have any. Their sticker is in the upper left of the windshield. If they have a record of the customer requesting no filter, then I can conclude the PO knew about the issue. If they don't have record of that, the filter was either forgotten (again, WTH) or the car was tampered with after the oil change. If they noted that the car came in with no filter, I can start pointing the finger at the guy who sold it to the seller.
I can maybe ask the seller who he bought the car from (somewhere in FL according to carfax) but trying to pin any blame on them is probably going to be much tougher.
In the end, I don't think I have much of a chance of actually receiving any compensation. Too many players involved. It just might cause a little more hair pulling than I already did last night when my engine received the death certificate.
My advice is to plan to either one - have the car sent to a respected shop like Flat 6 Innovations or Two - be prepared to sell it as a roller and move on with life. Either one is going to hurt your wallet. Sorry.
03-05-2019 | 02:53 PM
#49
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 872
Likes: 47
From: Megalopolis, NJ
Not even by accident? When I worked for a knock-off Jiffy Lube place back in high school, we let two cars (that I remember, its been a while) start up without oil in the crankcase. They didn't run long obviously. Both times, the person driving them away asked the kid down in the pit whether there was "oil in this one" and both times the kid in the pit thought he meant another car. Neither time was I responsible, since as a high school kid I was relegated to doing the interior vacuuming, which was disgusting on multiple levels. Not on purpose, sure, but I don't think you can rule out accident.
03-05-2019 | 05:20 PM
#51
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 1,573
Likes: 221
From: Toronto, north of the lake.
Most lawyers will give you 30 minutes of their time for free. If it was me, I would talk to one. Many jurisdictions have laws where even private sales have to be "fit for purpose". I would argue that a car sold without an oil filter isn't.
Anywho, none of this should be considered legal advice, and under no circumstances should you try to put a dollar in my pocket. Seriously, I don't want your grubby hands on my suit.
03-05-2019 | 05:35 PM
#52
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,613
Likes: 1,490
From: SoCal
Meineke wont roll over.
Its your word against theirs. Like others have said likely much of this damage was done done long before the filter incident.
All said, still sorry this happened to you.
Thanks for posting. Its a good lesson for all newbies to P car world.
Its your word against theirs. Like others have said likely much of this damage was done done long before the filter incident.
All said, still sorry this happened to you.
Thanks for posting. Its a good lesson for all newbies to P car world.
03-05-2019 | 06:12 PM
#53
Intermediate
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Dallas, Texas
The smaller piece that is next to the penny looks like it could be a brown piece of plastic. If that's the case, it's from the timing chain tensioners. From what I've learned, those are a common failure point. I know the newer replacement tensioners are a different color, but the dark brown ones are the original. I have a 5 chain motor(1999), and mine needed to be replaced right around 80,000 miles, after finding these brown bits of plastic in the bottom of my sump tray. I also found some aluminum shavings in the bottom of the Sump. From what I've researched, these could be from when the block was cast, and were not cleaned up from the factory. After it was all put back together, I've had no strange debris in my oil. The copper colored bit of metal I haven't seen before. I know that sinking feeling when something like this is found, but I'd definitely tear it down before I wrote off the motor. I wish you luck.
03-05-2019 | 06:31 PM
#54
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,484
Likes: 558
From: Toronto Canada eh!
Not even by accident? When I worked for a knock-off Jiffy Lube place back in high school, we let two cars (that I remember, its been a while) start up without oil in the crankcase. They didn't run long obviously. Both times, the person driving them away asked the kid down in the pit whether there was "oil in this one" and both times the kid in the pit thought he meant another car. Neither time was I responsible, since as a high school kid I was relegated to doing the interior vacuuming, which was disgusting on multiple levels. Not on purpose, sure, but I don't think you can rule out accident.
We would never forget to put a filter in a car btw. What kind of bonehead would bring a Porsche to a Jiffy Lube anyway.
I didn't read the whole thread but it is obvious the seller knew the engine was cooked and sold it without declaring.
To Strathcona: if you buy a car in Canada as is no warranty then the engine is found to have been blown I don't think you have any recourse. That is why Buyer Beware.
Karma will get this seller.
03-05-2019 | 06:40 PM
#55
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 872
Likes: 47
From: Megalopolis, NJ
sorry but I call BS on this post: I worked at a hurry lube and the oil was always added from the top, not the kid in the pit, as a matter of fact the guy starting the car was the guy that put the oil in.
We would never forget to put a filter in a car btw. What kind of bonehead would bring a Porsche to a Jiffy Lube anyway.
We would never forget to put a filter in a car btw. What kind of bonehead would bring a Porsche to a Jiffy Lube anyway.
03-05-2019 | 06:40 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 219
sorry but I call BS on this post: I worked at a hurry lube and the oil was always added from the top, not the kid in the pit, as a matter of fact the guy starting the car was the guy that put the oil in.
We would never forget to put a filter in a car btw. What kind of bonehead would bring a Porsche to a Jiffy Lube anyway.
We would never forget to put a filter in a car btw. What kind of bonehead would bring a Porsche to a Jiffy Lube anyway.
03-05-2019 | 06:49 PM
#57
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 11,484
Likes: 558
From: Toronto Canada eh!
Good for you, but we did. Not that I'm proud of it. And the guy driving it out may have said, "is this one ready" or whatever, and the pit guy answered. It was a long time ago. My point is that generally in these shops more than one person works on the car. I don't think you can eliminate error in not putting in a filter.
At 15 I was the kid in the pit....I did 90 oil changes in one day once.
one thought is did this car even have its oil changed at meinekes? is there an invoice or just the sticker? I think the seller was doing a great acting and setup job. No question he knew he was screwing the buyer.
03-05-2019 | 06:54 PM
#58
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 1,968
Likes: 219
Sorry Mike, my language may have been harsh...lol
At 15 I was the kid in the pit....I did 90 oil changes in one day once.
one thought is did this car even have its oil changed at meinekes? is there an invoice or just the sticker? I think the seller was doing a great acting and setup job. No question he knew he was screwing the buyer.
At 15 I was the kid in the pit....I did 90 oil changes in one day once.
one thought is did this car even have its oil changed at meinekes? is there an invoice or just the sticker? I think the seller was doing a great acting and setup job. No question he knew he was screwing the buyer.
03-05-2019 | 06:59 PM
#59
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 872
Likes: 47
From: Megalopolis, NJ
Sorry Mike, my language may have been harsh...lol
At 15 I was the kid in the pit....I did 90 oil changes in one day once.
one thought is did this car even have its oil changed at meinekes? is there an invoice or just the sticker? I think the seller was doing a great acting and setup job. No question he knew he was screwing the buyer.
At 15 I was the kid in the pit....I did 90 oil changes in one day once.
one thought is did this car even have its oil changed at meinekes? is there an invoice or just the sticker? I think the seller was doing a great acting and setup job. No question he knew he was screwing the buyer.
Good question about the sticker! Man, people suck.
03-05-2019 | 06:59 PM
#60
Thread Starter
8th Gear
Joined: Mar 2019
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The carfax report shows the car was at Meineke in May 2018. In the comments section it reads "Oil and filter changed." I didn't think to fact check that until now. At this point everything previously taken as fact should be scrutinized.