Going to Put in Rebuilt Injectors in my Motor
#16
Former Vendor
Always appreciate Jakes expert opinion but lots of fuel injectors get professionally cleaned, balanced and flow tested and reused.
The bigger issue with rebuilt injectors lies in the fluid that was used to clean them, and how long they have been on the shelf. As part of what we do, we work with wholesalers of parts that are having issues with products. A couple of years ago one company lost a lot of money selling rebuilt injectors due to warranty issues. I was asked to figure out the issue and it was determined that the fluid that was being used had a shelf life in the injector of 30 days, after that period it would actually begin to corrode the injector internally.
That said, cleaning and "rebuilding" injectors is done in a lab environment. The injector is being tested in a perfect scenario. Put that perfect injector on a hot engine that has just been shut down, and see if it will hold 60 PSI of dead headed fuel pressure without bleeding down overnight without puddling fuel in the intake ports and cylinders that have open intake valves. Give it a shot. Injectors have been fighting us for 5 years, and when I recommend to you to replace them with new units, this all comes from direct experience, pain, and suffering.
#17
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Jake is right. You can not rebuild these and most fuel injectors from the last 25+ years. Physically not possible! They are "refurbished" by cleaning them (internally and eternally), then new external hardware is put on (pintle cap and O rings) and are then painted to look new. The internal moving parts are just as worn as then were before. If a company uses the word rebuilt, they are lying. Yes, most flow test them and then they take the 6 closest flowing injectors and send them to you as a set. Often this means that these injectors came form different engines. You have no idea what you are getting other than they are a "flow matched" set of old injectors that look new.
#18
Rennlist Member
Rebuilt injectors get flow test to confirm spray patterns are correct.
Always appreciate Jakes expert opinion but lots of fuel injectors get professionally cleaned, balanced and flow tested and reused.
Of course, if money is no object buy new. But to say after your injectors are professionally cleaned, balanced and tested that they might be worse than before is less than honest.
Always appreciate Jakes expert opinion but lots of fuel injectors get professionally cleaned, balanced and flow tested and reused.
Of course, if money is no object buy new. But to say after your injectors are professionally cleaned, balanced and tested that they might be worse than before is less than honest.
Who said that ?
#19
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I've run into problems using rebuilt injectors in BMW engines.
Sure they sprayed fine, made great power, and solved misfire issues.
But they also leaked while setting.
They leaked up to the point of hydro-locking engines that sat very long.
Now I only use new injectors, especially in anything that is not daily driven.
Sure they sprayed fine, made great power, and solved misfire issues.
But they also leaked while setting.
They leaked up to the point of hydro-locking engines that sat very long.
Now I only use new injectors, especially in anything that is not daily driven.
#20
Former Vendor
Jake is right. You can not rebuild these and most fuel injectors from the last 25+ years. Physically not possible! They are "refurbished" by cleaning them (internally and eternally), then new external hardware is put on (pintle cap and O rings) and are then painted to look new. The internal moving parts are just as worn as then were before. If a company uses the word rebuilt, they are lying. Yes, most flow test them and then they take the 6 closest flowing injectors and send them to you as a set. Often this means that these injectors came form different engines. You have no idea what you are getting other than they are a "flow matched" set of old injectors that look new.
They leaked up to the point of hydro-locking engines that sat very long.
#21
Rennlist Member
I see warehouse 33 doesn't offer them (I'm sure he could get them), but does offer the rebuild service from the same place that I posted above.....$41 each plus a $50 core charge.....or I'm sure you could send Jason the injectors and for $41 each get them rebuilt. The 3.4 injectors are about $190 each new!
Usually I see trims running +5-+6 % when running Ethanol laced fuel. The DME can adjust +- 10% LTFT and =- 10% STFT and will set CEL if a +- 25% is reached.
The EV-6 and EV-1 are the same length, connector, and o-ring size and Ohm (12).. The EV-6 has a better spray pattern and runs cooler.
The 0280156053 flows only 20cc/min more ( 249cc/min vs 229cc/min) than the 0280150470 and would even be better suited for E10 on the 3.4 engine.
Since the price is SO much different, seems putting EV-6's in the 3.4 would be worth it, I'm sure Jake has done this, comments Jake?
The 3.4 doesn't suffer from bore scoring as much as it's big brothers, but uneven or leaking injectors can certainly cause this issue.
That 996.2 injector 0280156053 249cc/min is also used in the 2.7 and 3.2 986 from 01+
#22
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I got confirmation from Warehouse33 that the 996.2 Bosch fuel injectors they sell are new.
#23
Former Vendor
Why not just use the 996.2 injectors? The 996.1 injectors are EV-1 (0280150470) and flow 229cc/min, the 996.2 EV-6 (0280156053) flow 249cc/min that's a difference of just 9%. And if using Ethanol laced fuel (E10),it requires 6.3% more fuel than pure petrol, it will be closer to Lambda 1 (0 trim) than if using the EV-1 stock injectors and pure petrol.
Usually I see trims running +5-+6 % when running Ethanol laced fuel. The DME can adjust +- 10% LTFT and =- 10% STFT and will set CEL if a +- 25% is reached.
The EV-6 and EV-1 are the same length, connector, and o-ring size and Ohm (12).. The EV-6 has a better spray pattern and runs cooler.
The 0280156053 flows only 20cc/min more ( 249cc/min vs 229cc/min) than the 0280150470 and would even be better suited for E10 on the 3.4 engine.
Since the price is SO much different, seems putting EV-6's in the 3.4 would be worth it, I'm sure Jake has done this, comments Jake?
The 3.4 doesn't suffer from bore scoring as much as it's big brothers, but uneven or leaking injectors can certainly cause this issue.
That 996.2 injector 0280156053 249cc/min is also used in the 2.7 and 3.2 986 from 01+
Usually I see trims running +5-+6 % when running Ethanol laced fuel. The DME can adjust +- 10% LTFT and =- 10% STFT and will set CEL if a +- 25% is reached.
The EV-6 and EV-1 are the same length, connector, and o-ring size and Ohm (12).. The EV-6 has a better spray pattern and runs cooler.
The 0280156053 flows only 20cc/min more ( 249cc/min vs 229cc/min) than the 0280150470 and would even be better suited for E10 on the 3.4 engine.
Since the price is SO much different, seems putting EV-6's in the 3.4 would be worth it, I'm sure Jake has done this, comments Jake?
The 3.4 doesn't suffer from bore scoring as much as it's big brothers, but uneven or leaking injectors can certainly cause this issue.
That 996.2 injector 0280156053 249cc/min is also used in the 2.7 and 3.2 986 from 01+
BUT when an early engine needs new injectors we do replace them as you mention. One mod is required to make the injectors fit the early style fuel rail/ clip. l’ll do a Rennvision video on that next week for you guys. It takes 5 minutes per injector
#24
Rennlist Member
Jake, I'm glad you're back on the forum! Thank you for the education...
#25
Former Vendor
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Jake's, thanks so much about saying that the 996.2 injectors would work with a modification. I would rather have new and truly appreciate you making a video on how to modify him to go into the fuel rail.
#28
Rennlist Member
Now I’m just some knucklehead that mostly has rebuilt Ford small blocks but I love EFI. Ford’s EFI systems were originally based on Bosch designs. I read Bosch’s first EFI book back in college. Ford’s first mutiport EFI systems used Bosch EV1 injectors with EV1 being the electric connector. These were the old style single port one o ring, pintle cap having Bosch injectors with different colors being different flow rates. I have a handy dandy sheet that tells me flow rates, how much power you can support and at what duty cycle. EV6 injectors have different connectors and have 4 spray holes in the end for a better pattern and atomization.
I seriously doubt Porsche made EV1 or EV6 injectors with different plugs. I know Ford sells adapters for EV1 harnesses to use newer EV6 injectors. I also know you can get generic (read chinese) new style injectirs with EV1 connectors on them.
EV1 refers to the old Motronic connector and EV6 is a uscar connector. You can get adapters to upgrade EV1 to EV6. No one in their right mind would go back to EV1 from EV6 though.
As for cleaning injectors, I suspect Jake is right that they will leak after shutoff. New injectors are better. Heck I’m putting new generic injectors on my POS Ford for the $2k challenge. I won’t even used old injectors on that project.
Now after reading this I know to look for Bosch EV6s of a certain flow rate. I just need to know the spec fuel pressure for the flow rate. I bet I can find them cheaper.
I seriously doubt Porsche made EV1 or EV6 injectors with different plugs. I know Ford sells adapters for EV1 harnesses to use newer EV6 injectors. I also know you can get generic (read chinese) new style injectirs with EV1 connectors on them.
EV1 refers to the old Motronic connector and EV6 is a uscar connector. You can get adapters to upgrade EV1 to EV6. No one in their right mind would go back to EV1 from EV6 though.
As for cleaning injectors, I suspect Jake is right that they will leak after shutoff. New injectors are better. Heck I’m putting new generic injectors on my POS Ford for the $2k challenge. I won’t even used old injectors on that project.
Now after reading this I know to look for Bosch EV6s of a certain flow rate. I just need to know the spec fuel pressure for the flow rate. I bet I can find them cheaper.
Last edited by AnthonyGS; 01-15-2019 at 02:21 AM.
#29
Rennlist Member
Now I’m just some knucklehead that mostly has rebuilt Ford small blocks but I love EFI. Ford’s EFI systems were originally based on Bosch designs. I read Bosch’s first EFI book back in college. Ford’s first mutiport EFI systems used Bosch EV1 injectors with EV1 being the electric connector. These were the old style single port one o ring, pintle cap having Bosch injectors with different colors being different flow rates. I have a handy dandy sheet that tells me flow rates, how much power you can support and at what duty cycle. EV6 injectors have different connectors and have 4 spray holes in the end for a better pattern and atomization.
I seriously doubt Porsche made EV1 or EV6 injectors with different plugs. I know Ford sells adapters for EV1 harnesses to use newer EV6 injectors. I also know you can get generic (read chinese) new style injectirs with EV1 connectors on them.
EV1 refers to the old Motronic connector and EV6 is a uscar connector. You can get adapters to upgrade EV1 to EV6. No one in their right mind would go back to EV1 from EV6 though.
As for cleaning injectors, I suspect Jake is right that they will leak after shutoff. New injectors are better. Heck I’m putting new generic injectors on my POS Ford for the $2k challenge. I won’t even used old injectors on that project.
Now after reading this I know to look for Bosch EV6s of a certain flow rate. I just need to know the spec fuel pressure for the flow rate. I bet I can find them cheaper.
I seriously doubt Porsche made EV1 or EV6 injectors with different plugs. I know Ford sells adapters for EV1 harnesses to use newer EV6 injectors. I also know you can get generic (read chinese) new style injectirs with EV1 connectors on them.
EV1 refers to the old Motronic connector and EV6 is a uscar connector. You can get adapters to upgrade EV1 to EV6. No one in their right mind would go back to EV1 from EV6 though.
As for cleaning injectors, I suspect Jake is right that they will leak after shutoff. New injectors are better. Heck I’m putting new generic injectors on my POS Ford for the $2k challenge. I won’t even used old injectors on that project.
Now after reading this I know to look for Bosch EV6s of a certain flow rate. I just need to know the spec fuel pressure for the flow rate. I bet I can find them cheaper.
EV-1, EV-6 and EV-14 are Bosch injector "body" styles, not connector types.
Bosch even makes the EV-14 in the "standard " length ( EV-1 replacement)with flow rates up to 1000cc/min with the "EV-1 style Bosch Jetronic/Minitimer connector."
BTW the flow rate is 3 Bar for these specs.
Last edited by Porschetech3; 01-15-2019 at 04:36 AM.