General 996 advice & opinions wanted
07-15-2018, 10:17 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
Sadly, that's a myth. I don't see the 996s appreciating at all. Maybe in another 20-30 years for a select few, but the automotive landscape will be so different by then that you may find it both costly and in some case outright prohibited areas to drive an internal combustion engine. That's not going to improve their value.
The best chance of finding something likely to rise in value will be something very rare and that means expensive. The Turbos and GT cars stand a chance, but the rest of the 996s are simply too many in numbers. You should really look for a GT2, but that will cost you as much as a mid-size house and the right house stands a better chance on return of investment than any 996.
You are far, far better socking your money into a reputable mutual fund than anything with wheels. Yes, a few players make money flipping cars, but they tend to have deep pockets from the start and are prepared to drop expendable cash that us regular folks don't have.
That being said, a 996 (or even an early Boxster) are a relatively easy way to get into the club. But chances are you are going to be pouring money into the vehicle. Any car with 10 to 15+ years under its belt is going to be breaking. Don't forget to budget for normal expenses like oil, gas, tires, brakes, and fluids. Oh, and there is the cost of storage, insurance, and registration.
When you add in those expenses, your "investment" doesn't look so good.
The best chance of finding something likely to rise in value will be something very rare and that means expensive. The Turbos and GT cars stand a chance, but the rest of the 996s are simply too many in numbers. You should really look for a GT2, but that will cost you as much as a mid-size house and the right house stands a better chance on return of investment than any 996.
You are far, far better socking your money into a reputable mutual fund than anything with wheels. Yes, a few players make money flipping cars, but they tend to have deep pockets from the start and are prepared to drop expendable cash that us regular folks don't have.
That being said, a 996 (or even an early Boxster) are a relatively easy way to get into the club. But chances are you are going to be pouring money into the vehicle. Any car with 10 to 15+ years under its belt is going to be breaking. Don't forget to budget for normal expenses like oil, gas, tires, brakes, and fluids. Oh, and there is the cost of storage, insurance, and registration.
When you add in those expenses, your "investment" doesn't look so good.
Never buy a car as an investment. That's the first thing you need to know and understand. Get it because you want it and will drive it. Porsches are not meant to be coffee tables or trophies to put on a shelf. Second, never add up all the receipts.
Buy as good an example as you can afford and set aside 6-8k for a thorough PPI and then follow up with preventative maintenance. The idea being that you can rule out an IMS problem or scored bores as much as is possible from the get go and have a car you can drive and enjoy with nothing more than regular maintenance.
That said, I have a 99 Boxster I've used for product development for over a decade. I've stuffed it into the wall at Road America, blown up development engines, re-painted the car twice, replaced the roof, I'm on my 2nd gearbox and 5th or 6th engine (not because of failures every time, but rather because I want to try something new or go bigger). The car can out accelerate a 991 GT3 from a rolling start.
The question I ask people is this. How much will you have to spend to buy a new Porsche that you will enjoy as much as the one you have now, even if you have to put a new engine in it? In the long run, if well maintained, it will always be money in the bank to keep and preserve what you have versus buying new every time.
07-15-2018, 10:44 AM
#17
I’m the oddball here in complete disagreement on the appreciation matter. Not every 996 will appreciate, but anything low mile 6 speed coupe in great shape will...they already are and it sounds like that is what you are looking for. Sure, C4S, aero, targa 😱, anniversary models, etc will lead the way. The reasoning is very simple, two fold, and alluded to in your desire for a 996.
These are the first cars that were “modern” and the last cars that delivered the driving experience without computer nannies. Because they were far more modern and livable, more of them were daily driven. Because more of them were daily driven, more of them have ended up in the junk yard, or at the very least, no longer are in great shape. I truly believe this will negate the negligible production increases over 964’s, 993’s, etc. Those models had shorter production runs as well, but my guess is a vast majority are still on the road. The “old guard” air cooled guys are approaching an average age of around 90. Folks like me (30’s-40’s) don’t care if the car is air or water cooled, it’s a 911! My generation is going to scoff at the “hybrid electric self-driving 911” and “Let your Porsche show you what it’s like to win at LeMans, without ever touching the steering wheel” ...what’s the point? When you see those terms in Porsche advertisements, look for an immediate spike in 996-997 values.
That being said, will we ever see a $100,000 99’ base C2 coupe? Probably not anytime soon. I’m suggesting that these cars will appreciate just enough that if you kept the car for 10 years (from today), you might cover what you spent to enjoy the car and walk away with ten years of memories for “free”. I’m with Charles in that no car is an investment, but if you pick the right car and have a bit of luck, you could own one of the world’s greatest cars for next to nothing.
These are the first cars that were “modern” and the last cars that delivered the driving experience without computer nannies. Because they were far more modern and livable, more of them were daily driven. Because more of them were daily driven, more of them have ended up in the junk yard, or at the very least, no longer are in great shape. I truly believe this will negate the negligible production increases over 964’s, 993’s, etc. Those models had shorter production runs as well, but my guess is a vast majority are still on the road. The “old guard” air cooled guys are approaching an average age of around 90. Folks like me (30’s-40’s) don’t care if the car is air or water cooled, it’s a 911! My generation is going to scoff at the “hybrid electric self-driving 911” and “Let your Porsche show you what it’s like to win at LeMans, without ever touching the steering wheel” ...what’s the point? When you see those terms in Porsche advertisements, look for an immediate spike in 996-997 values.
That being said, will we ever see a $100,000 99’ base C2 coupe? Probably not anytime soon. I’m suggesting that these cars will appreciate just enough that if you kept the car for 10 years (from today), you might cover what you spent to enjoy the car and walk away with ten years of memories for “free”. I’m with Charles in that no car is an investment, but if you pick the right car and have a bit of luck, you could own one of the world’s greatest cars for next to nothing.
07-15-2018, 12:07 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
I always loved 911’s but didn’t feel I could afford to operate it and keep it maintained. For the better part of two years, I researched and drove M3, M5, CTS-V and AMG 63. I concluded nothing touched the 996 for driving. Getting smarter about the car helps. Men like Baz and Charles and Jake and Pedro know these cars better than anyone. They made a believer out of me. Due diligence is absolutely essential and knowledge is everything. Find the best car for your money and be very, very sure of your decision so remorse doesn’t dim the joy you’ll have keeping the car just right while driving it like you stole it. The car is basically ready for a DE out of the box, or should be. We have numerous resources on-line. If I had the space to drop the engine, my indie would barely get to touch my car. Parts are reasonable if you search properly. Truth is, my late-model XC90 is as expensive to maintain (engine drop labor not included with that cost analysis).
07-15-2018, 04:37 PM
#19
Racer
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I agree, never buy a car as an investment. I got lucky with my Mcoupe and got exactly what I paid for it twelve years later. I just bought a convertible that I hope to drive most of it’s useful life ( 150,000 miles) then get maybe 5-7 k for it from someone else with the itch for a great car. I’m sure I’ll spend at least 15-20 Grand in that time fixing and maintaining it , and I’ll enjoy the experince more for just driving it. True collector cars don’t get used, and need to be perfect cosmetically. Not worth it in my opinion.
07-16-2018, 12:12 PM
#20
Instructor
I've owned my 2002 cab for almost 3 yrs now and it shows 71K miles on the OD. I bought it from my son-in-law (who lives 15 minutes away) who bought it new.
All I can say is this car puts a huge smile on my face every time I even THINK about driving it! I live in a place where almost every day of the year is top-down weather, so I'd never consider any 996 that wasn't a cab.
The 6-Speed manual in my car is pure joy, but would not be my choice if I had a heavy traffic commute to face (I'm retired and can do my driving in traffic free hours).
The car is quick at around 5 sec for 0 to 60 and has good torque. As an ex-USAF fighter pilot, I'd like more power... a LOT more power, but the 320bhp in my car is certainly more than adequate. That said, my car is a boat anchor compared to my son-in-law's dual motored TESLA that clips off 0 to 60 in about 2.5 seconds.
Repairs ARE expensive since I don't do my own work. A faulty door locking system that set off an alarm beeping noise cost me $840 to get fixed last week.
Since I don't track the car or drive at excessive speeds, I'm more than happy with the two wheel drive of my car.
But put it all together and I'd say if I had to sell it tomorrow as a roller, I got more than my money's worth of enjoyment out of the car! But if money is tight and repairs have to be minimized, I'd look for something else.
Like airplanes and most other mechanical devices that are designed to run, most problems come up when you don't use them. "Lot rot" will raise your repair costs for sure. If you get one, DRIVE IT as much as you can.
All I can say is this car puts a huge smile on my face every time I even THINK about driving it! I live in a place where almost every day of the year is top-down weather, so I'd never consider any 996 that wasn't a cab.
The 6-Speed manual in my car is pure joy, but would not be my choice if I had a heavy traffic commute to face (I'm retired and can do my driving in traffic free hours).
The car is quick at around 5 sec for 0 to 60 and has good torque. As an ex-USAF fighter pilot, I'd like more power... a LOT more power, but the 320bhp in my car is certainly more than adequate. That said, my car is a boat anchor compared to my son-in-law's dual motored TESLA that clips off 0 to 60 in about 2.5 seconds.
Repairs ARE expensive since I don't do my own work. A faulty door locking system that set off an alarm beeping noise cost me $840 to get fixed last week.
Since I don't track the car or drive at excessive speeds, I'm more than happy with the two wheel drive of my car.
But put it all together and I'd say if I had to sell it tomorrow as a roller, I got more than my money's worth of enjoyment out of the car! But if money is tight and repairs have to be minimized, I'd look for something else.
Like airplanes and most other mechanical devices that are designed to run, most problems come up when you don't use them. "Lot rot" will raise your repair costs for sure. If you get one, DRIVE IT as much as you can.
07-16-2018, 05:26 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
Parts on these cars are aging and all rubber or plastic parts need to be changed if not already done. Gets expensive real fast even if you do your own work!
07-16-2018, 08:59 PM
#24
Intermediate
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Hello All,
I purchased my Artic Silver 2004 996 C4S with 134k on the clock for 17K. It is the cabriolet model with PSE and I drive it like I stole it. I have so far purchased a non-color matching hardtop for a bargain and do not care for the two tone top. It does need some TLC which I will have fixed by End of year. Going to overhaul the suspension components with a mixture of Powerflex front and rear sway bar bushings, TRW drop links, new control arms, powerflex bushings for the remaining control links, rears etc. Going to drive it like a stole it with the police chasing me this time. Do I care about the investment aspect of it? Yes, I do. One cannot put a price on fun.
I purchased my Artic Silver 2004 996 C4S with 134k on the clock for 17K. It is the cabriolet model with PSE and I drive it like I stole it. I have so far purchased a non-color matching hardtop for a bargain and do not care for the two tone top. It does need some TLC which I will have fixed by End of year. Going to overhaul the suspension components with a mixture of Powerflex front and rear sway bar bushings, TRW drop links, new control arms, powerflex bushings for the remaining control links, rears etc. Going to drive it like a stole it with the police chasing me this time. Do I care about the investment aspect of it? Yes, I do. One cannot put a price on fun.
07-16-2018, 09:17 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
No more than any other issue: "You get what you pay for!", then when it comes to purchasing a 996.
These are 15 year old sports cars.
I love the ads that say, never tracked or never driven hard. Are you kidding me, a Porsche 15 years old and never driven hard....
Purchasing a car that may have been used for occasional DE, is "generally" not a negative.
People who track thier 996s, generally have a strong maintenance program, not to mention PCA tech inspections required.
The worst thing you could buy is a garage queen, ie., 15,000 miles on a 15 year old 996.
Walk away from anything like that.
Look for real documented miles and concurrent maintenance.
Just my $.02
My purchase in 2013 for a 2003 996, carfax had 5 full pages of documented inspections and all maintenance done at Porsche dealer, from brake and coolant flushes to wipers. I paid the long dollar for the car, but have no regrets.
PS, I wasted several hundred dollars on PPIs for cars that were less money.
These are 15 year old sports cars.
I love the ads that say, never tracked or never driven hard. Are you kidding me, a Porsche 15 years old and never driven hard....
Purchasing a car that may have been used for occasional DE, is "generally" not a negative.
People who track thier 996s, generally have a strong maintenance program, not to mention PCA tech inspections required.
The worst thing you could buy is a garage queen, ie., 15,000 miles on a 15 year old 996.
Walk away from anything like that.
Look for real documented miles and concurrent maintenance.
Just my $.02
My purchase in 2013 for a 2003 996, carfax had 5 full pages of documented inspections and all maintenance done at Porsche dealer, from brake and coolant flushes to wipers. I paid the long dollar for the car, but have no regrets.
PS, I wasted several hundred dollars on PPIs for cars that were less money.
07-16-2018, 11:26 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
07-17-2018, 08:54 AM
#28
As 996s have now entered the "affordable" price ranges, many prospective buyers are tempted to jump into the water...without any Porsche experience to guide them.
Over the course of some 35 years, I'm now enjoying my 4th 911 (a '99 996 cab 6 speed), here's my best advice to prospective buyers:
>Focus on examples with extensive maintenance records...insist on paperwork!
>Buy from a knowledgeable seller...there are many in PCA circles.
>Lean toward "over maintaining" your Porsche. Such costs will be returned via day-to-day reliability and when you eventually sell the car.
>Locate a local indy Porsche repair shop. Go talk with them BEFORE you buy one. Then consider them for performing a PPI on examples you're honestly considering for purchase.
Free advice...take it.
relinuca
Over the course of some 35 years, I'm now enjoying my 4th 911 (a '99 996 cab 6 speed), here's my best advice to prospective buyers:
>Focus on examples with extensive maintenance records...insist on paperwork!
>Buy from a knowledgeable seller...there are many in PCA circles.
>Lean toward "over maintaining" your Porsche. Such costs will be returned via day-to-day reliability and when you eventually sell the car.
>Locate a local indy Porsche repair shop. Go talk with them BEFORE you buy one. Then consider them for performing a PPI on examples you're honestly considering for purchase.
Free advice...take it.
relinuca