Do You Agree With the Dealer?
05-09-2018, 11:27 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Do You Agree With the Dealer?
After taking delivery of my ‘02, I brought it in to the dealer for a once-over to establish a baseline for the car should I need to build a list of ‘to do’s’. Only item they found was an oil filer tube that was cracked, seemingly a usual occurrence with these engines.
But I had a few questions for the dealer, and I’m curious if the community agrees:
1) shifts into 2nd gear do not always go, especially when cold from start-up. It feels as though you have engaged the gear, but I get a gear grind when I engage the clutch. The dealer says that this is entirely normal, and the shift cables do not need to be adjusted. When the car warms, a decisive move into 2nd gear yields engagement, but you need to be decisive and not just slip it into gear. What say you?
2) Acceleration in the car seems ‘notchy’ (for lack of a better word..), and seems to ratchet-up as you accelerate...unless, of course, if you give it a good dose of throttle, at which points it responds with great performance. Dealer says that this is an early version of Various-Cam and is just the cams being moved about as rpm’s increase; more moderate acceleration allows you to feel it. What say you?
3) Oil change takes more time as you need to continually monitor the gauge reading, resulting in a $250 oil/filter change. There’s a dip stick in the car...is that not a more accurate reading of the oil level?
thanks!
Bob
But I had a few questions for the dealer, and I’m curious if the community agrees:
1) shifts into 2nd gear do not always go, especially when cold from start-up. It feels as though you have engaged the gear, but I get a gear grind when I engage the clutch. The dealer says that this is entirely normal, and the shift cables do not need to be adjusted. When the car warms, a decisive move into 2nd gear yields engagement, but you need to be decisive and not just slip it into gear. What say you?
2) Acceleration in the car seems ‘notchy’ (for lack of a better word..), and seems to ratchet-up as you accelerate...unless, of course, if you give it a good dose of throttle, at which points it responds with great performance. Dealer says that this is an early version of Various-Cam and is just the cams being moved about as rpm’s increase; more moderate acceleration allows you to feel it. What say you?
3) Oil change takes more time as you need to continually monitor the gauge reading, resulting in a $250 oil/filter change. There’s a dip stick in the car...is that not a more accurate reading of the oil level?
thanks!
Bob
05-09-2018, 11:35 AM
#2
After taking delivery of my ‘02, I brought it in to the dealer for a once-over to establish a baseline for the car should I need to build a list of ‘to do’s’. Only item they found was an oil filer tube that was cracked, seemingly a usual occurrence with these engines.
But I had a few questions for the dealer, and I’m curious if the community agrees:
1) shifts into 2nd gear do not always go, especially when cold from start-up. It feels as though you have engaged the gear, but I get a gear grind when I engage the clutch. The dealer says that this is entirely normal, and the shift cables do not need to be adjusted. When the car warms, a decisive move into 2nd gear yields engagement, but you need to be decisive and not just slip it into gear. What say you?
2) Acceleration in the car seems ‘notchy’ (for lack of a better word..), and seems to ratchet-up as you accelerate...unless, of course, if you give it a good dose of throttle, at which points it responds with great performance. Dealer says that this is an early version of Various-Cam and is just the cams being moved about as rpm’s increase; more moderate acceleration allows you to feel it. What say you?
3) Oil change takes more time as you need to continually monitor the gauge reading, resulting in a $250 oil/filter change. There’s a dip stick in the car...is that not a more accurate reading of the oil level?
thanks!
Bob
But I had a few questions for the dealer, and I’m curious if the community agrees:
1) shifts into 2nd gear do not always go, especially when cold from start-up. It feels as though you have engaged the gear, but I get a gear grind when I engage the clutch. The dealer says that this is entirely normal, and the shift cables do not need to be adjusted. When the car warms, a decisive move into 2nd gear yields engagement, but you need to be decisive and not just slip it into gear. What say you?
2) Acceleration in the car seems ‘notchy’ (for lack of a better word..), and seems to ratchet-up as you accelerate...unless, of course, if you give it a good dose of throttle, at which points it responds with great performance. Dealer says that this is an early version of Various-Cam and is just the cams being moved about as rpm’s increase; more moderate acceleration allows you to feel it. What say you?
3) Oil change takes more time as you need to continually monitor the gauge reading, resulting in a $250 oil/filter change. There’s a dip stick in the car...is that not a more accurate reading of the oil level?
thanks!
Bob
2. 02 3.6 L has vario cam plus which is the 2nd generation. For lack of better word, it seem more responsive after 3k rpm for me. Try turn your key to ACC but not start the car and don't touch paddles for 60 seconds. It recalibrate the accelerator paddle. See if that works for you.
3. This is the easiest car to do oil change on my own than any car I have owned. It only took me longer time because I try to check out the filter when I change my oil.
05-09-2018, 11:40 AM
#3
GC:
#1: Disagree. I've read that this can be a problem that can sometimes be addressed w/o to much pain. Do a search here fro more technical advice.
#2: Could be the Variocam working. Mine comes in just north of 3,000rpm. Feels like a couple of extra cylinders kick in...Fun!
#3: B.S. Very easy DIY. Just did mine Sunday and I'm an old guy! Drain, change filter, refill to amount suggested in owners manual, start, check for leaks, shut off. Wait for oil drain back which takes a long time...hours... to get accurate reading. Stick seems most reliable to me. It is recommended that an "accurate" oil level reading should not be taken until car has sat overnight and on a level surface.
#1: Disagree. I've read that this can be a problem that can sometimes be addressed w/o to much pain. Do a search here fro more technical advice.
#2: Could be the Variocam working. Mine comes in just north of 3,000rpm. Feels like a couple of extra cylinders kick in...Fun!
#3: B.S. Very easy DIY. Just did mine Sunday and I'm an old guy! Drain, change filter, refill to amount suggested in owners manual, start, check for leaks, shut off. Wait for oil drain back which takes a long time...hours... to get accurate reading. Stick seems most reliable to me. It is recommended that an "accurate" oil level reading should not be taken until car has sat overnight and on a level surface.
05-09-2018, 11:40 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
Overall, I think your dealer either shows a lack of knowledge about these cars, or wants you to feel good about the purchase so you'll buy more cars from them. I am relatively new to these cars, but my take on his opinion:
1) Wrong. I have not had an issue, but 2nd gear synchros are an issue on these cars. Others can weigh in on whether this issue will get worse. Adjusting the cable may help, and is worth a shot, but it may not help.
2) I can feel the VVT "boost" around 3K RPM, but it is not extremely noticeable. Its not negative either, for lack of a better word, though. If you think the car is hesitating, then I would not say this is a "normal" VVT issue.
3) Oil changes on this car take a long time because there's a lot of oil in the pan. I wait 30 or 40 minutes for it to drain, and there's a little oil still in the pan. That seems to be ok though, since the refill volume (9.3 QTS) seems to be less than the overall pan volume (as high as 10 QTS, estimated). Not sure why the tech would be monitoring the gauge. Sounds like a justification for an unreasonably high charge for an oil change.
I think you should find an indy you trust. Other Rennlisters may be able to help with some names in Williamsburg.
1) Wrong. I have not had an issue, but 2nd gear synchros are an issue on these cars. Others can weigh in on whether this issue will get worse. Adjusting the cable may help, and is worth a shot, but it may not help.
2) I can feel the VVT "boost" around 3K RPM, but it is not extremely noticeable. Its not negative either, for lack of a better word, though. If you think the car is hesitating, then I would not say this is a "normal" VVT issue.
3) Oil changes on this car take a long time because there's a lot of oil in the pan. I wait 30 or 40 minutes for it to drain, and there's a little oil still in the pan. That seems to be ok though, since the refill volume (9.3 QTS) seems to be less than the overall pan volume (as high as 10 QTS, estimated). Not sure why the tech would be monitoring the gauge. Sounds like a justification for an unreasonably high charge for an oil change.
I think you should find an indy you trust. Other Rennlisters may be able to help with some names in Williamsburg.
05-09-2018, 11:47 AM
#5
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Did they replace the oil filler tube?
1) Always hard to shift into second. It takes practice and a hard shift when the transmission is cold.
2) As suggested do an e-gas calibration, turn key to run (but don't start), wait 60 seconds, turn key to off and remove key. You should hear some whirring sounds from the engine bay.
3) $250 for an oil change? My goodness. DIY Anyway, the cluster oil level gauge is mostly there as a guide - such as is there any oil in there or not? You will find it ranges depending on first morning check, after fuel fill up, after a hard run and shutdown...and so on. Always depend on the dipstick for an accurate reading.
1) Always hard to shift into second. It takes practice and a hard shift when the transmission is cold.
2) As suggested do an e-gas calibration, turn key to run (but don't start), wait 60 seconds, turn key to off and remove key. You should hear some whirring sounds from the engine bay.
3) $250 for an oil change? My goodness. DIY Anyway, the cluster oil level gauge is mostly there as a guide - such as is there any oil in there or not? You will find it ranges depending on first morning check, after fuel fill up, after a hard run and shutdown...and so on. Always depend on the dipstick for an accurate reading.
05-09-2018, 12:02 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I’ll do the oil fill tube myself. Dealer wanted $500 to do it. Yikes!
I do not suspect synchros in the car as once it does warm, shifts are positive. I did pick-up the fixture to adjust the shifter positioning. The car has 50,000 miles on it, so I’ll check for adjustment.
I’ll give the e-gas set-up a try. On my Ford Explorer Sport, I have a RoushYates interface unit on the throttle that allows you to change the rate of throttle tip-in. The seat of the pants effect is very noticeable.
And, yes, I’ll be doing maintenanace myself. First project is refinishing the center console sticky paint. I’ll post photos when done. Second is to remove, rebuild and refinish the calipers that were painted while on the car with not only the calipers being painted. Ugh....
Thanks for the comments!
I do not suspect synchros in the car as once it does warm, shifts are positive. I did pick-up the fixture to adjust the shifter positioning. The car has 50,000 miles on it, so I’ll check for adjustment.
I’ll give the e-gas set-up a try. On my Ford Explorer Sport, I have a RoushYates interface unit on the throttle that allows you to change the rate of throttle tip-in. The seat of the pants effect is very noticeable.
And, yes, I’ll be doing maintenanace myself. First project is refinishing the center console sticky paint. I’ll post photos when done. Second is to remove, rebuild and refinish the calipers that were painted while on the car with not only the calipers being painted. Ugh....
Thanks for the comments!
05-09-2018, 12:02 PM
#7
It costs me about $100 to do the oil/filter change myself. The dealer here charges $350. Like others have said, it is a very easy DIY. Install the LN Spin-on filter adapter and magnetic drain plug. The cracked oil filter tube needs to be addressed if it hasn't been already. It will cause problems.
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05-09-2018, 12:27 PM
#8
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#1 -- I haven't experienced that, but whatever fluid was in my gearbox before definitely felt better than the synthetic off-the-parts-store-shelf stuff I put back in. Cables absolutely need to be looked at / adjusted. One of mine wasn't even connected to the bracket on the transmission. Fixed that with some zip-ties.
#2 -- As a newer owner myself, I have also observed this. If I accelerate modestly, keeping the pedal in the same position, I definitely get a noticeable surge ~3200 rpms. I.e. the torque delivery is not flat for a given throttle position, unless the pedal is flat.
#3 -- oil change sounds like 1hr of flat rate labor plus materials. Not out of the question for a Porsche dealership.
#2 -- As a newer owner myself, I have also observed this. If I accelerate modestly, keeping the pedal in the same position, I definitely get a noticeable surge ~3200 rpms. I.e. the torque delivery is not flat for a given throttle position, unless the pedal is flat.
#3 -- oil change sounds like 1hr of flat rate labor plus materials. Not out of the question for a Porsche dealership.
05-09-2018, 05:42 PM
#9
2-nd gear pop out... very common issue.
Look it up... but the part be done with it.
That filler tube is a bitch,,, took me hours to do it... now that I know how... maybe under 2 all done and said.
Oil change is TOOOOOOOOOOOO easy...! Drain oil... Finger the sump... put plug back in. Remove filter element... inspect filter... replace filter element. Fill oil to proper level and go. (Or get the spin on adapter and a filter cutter)
Look it up... but the part be done with it.
That filler tube is a bitch,,, took me hours to do it... now that I know how... maybe under 2 all done and said.
Oil change is TOOOOOOOOOOOO easy...! Drain oil... Finger the sump... put plug back in. Remove filter element... inspect filter... replace filter element. Fill oil to proper level and go. (Or get the spin on adapter and a filter cutter)
05-09-2018, 06:16 PM
#10
Rennlist Member
1. as mentioned the 2nd gear syncro is a common problem with the g96 gear box.Change the fluid to Swepco 201,It will shift slicker when cold. Install the 2nd gear pop out fix, will help stop grinding and prolong the replacement of the syncro. If the grinding continues or gets worse will need 2nd gear syncro replaced.
2. Fix the cracked oil tube. An air leak can cause air/fuel mixture adaptions to be all over the place.
3. Oil changes are easy. It does take longer than most cars simply due to drain time. Factory recommends 20 min minimum on warm oil, cold oil will take longer.
2. Fix the cracked oil tube. An air leak can cause air/fuel mixture adaptions to be all over the place.
3. Oil changes are easy. It does take longer than most cars simply due to drain time. Factory recommends 20 min minimum on warm oil, cold oil will take longer.
05-09-2018, 06:38 PM
#11
Rennlist Member
I don't see anything here to be critical of the dealer about. Yes, the trans can be notchy/stiff when cold. Mine is OK in 2nd gear but not in 3rd. A trans oil change with the right lube might help yours. There is a pronounced power and sound change at around 3200 in my car - Variocam at work. And to get the oil level spot on, I don't see how you could do it without letting the car sit overnight. If you drain it hot, yes you might be able to just put a specified amount in and get lucky, but otherwise it takes some trial and error and time is money at the dealership.
05-09-2018, 09:51 PM
#12
Rennlist Member
For Sale: 1 gallon Swepco 201 $30 only used for 10 miles.
05-09-2018, 11:24 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
1. as mentioned the 2nd gear syncro is a common problem with the g96 gear box.Change the fluid to Swepco 201,It will shift slicker when cold. Install the 2nd gear pop out fix, will help stop grinding and prolong the replacement of the syncro. If the grinding continues or gets worse will need 2nd gear syncro replaced.
2. Fix the cracked oil tube. An air leak can cause air/fuel mixture adaptions to be all over the place.
3. Oil changes are easy. It does take longer than most cars simply due to drain time. Factory recommends 20 min minimum on warm oil, cold oil will take longer.
2. Fix the cracked oil tube. An air leak can cause air/fuel mixture adaptions to be all over the place.
3. Oil changes are easy. It does take longer than most cars simply due to drain time. Factory recommends 20 min minimum on warm oil, cold oil will take longer.
Bob
05-09-2018, 11:29 PM
#14
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I don't see anything here to be critical of the dealer about. Yes, the trans can be notchy/stiff when cold. Mine is OK in 2nd gear but not in 3rd. A trans oil change with the right lube might help yours. There is a pronounced power and sound change at around 3200 in my car - Variocam at work. And to get the oil level spot on, I don't see how you could do it without letting the car sit overnight. If you drain it hot, yes you might be able to just put a specified amount in and get lucky, but otherwise it takes some trial and error and time is money at the dealership.
This forum is indispensable is you own a 996.
05-10-2018, 12:08 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
GC:
#1: Disagree. I've read that this can be a problem that can sometimes be addressed w/o to much pain. Do a search here fro more technical advice.
#2: Could be the Variocam working. Mine comes in just north of 3,000rpm. Feels like a couple of extra cylinders kick in...Fun!
#3: B.S. Very easy DIY. Just did mine Sunday and I'm an old guy! Drain, change filter, refill to amount suggested in owners manual, start, check for leaks, shut off. Wait for oil drain back which takes a long time...hours... to get accurate reading. Stick seems most reliable to me. It is recommended that an "accurate" oil level reading should not be taken until car has sat overnight and on a level surface.
#1: Disagree. I've read that this can be a problem that can sometimes be addressed w/o to much pain. Do a search here fro more technical advice.
#2: Could be the Variocam working. Mine comes in just north of 3,000rpm. Feels like a couple of extra cylinders kick in...Fun!
#3: B.S. Very easy DIY. Just did mine Sunday and I'm an old guy! Drain, change filter, refill to amount suggested in owners manual, start, check for leaks, shut off. Wait for oil drain back which takes a long time...hours... to get accurate reading. Stick seems most reliable to me. It is recommended that an "accurate" oil level reading should not be taken until car has sat overnight and on a level surface.