New 996, been sitting for 5 years!
07-20-2017, 03:33 PM
#61
Rennlist Member
Understood but this is a hobby for me. I buy cars and bikes and fix them up, keep them or sell them. I'm not doing this to get rich, its a release from my day job which is high stress high hours.
Dropping and replacing the motor looks very straightforward, I think I could knock it out in a weekend easily.
Dropping and replacing the motor looks very straightforward, I think I could knock it out in a weekend easily.
But honestly I can't imagine not being upside-down selling the car after fixing it, unless you really cut some corners on replacement parts.
New motor and transmission mounts, new AOS, new coils, new coolant expansion tank, new clutch, new shifter cables are common wear/failure parts just off the top of my head that you would want to replace on any high mileage 996 motor swap done right. None of that likely included with a rebuilt engine, a few grand more right there. Add an upgraded IMS bearing, possibly new cats, all new hoses, etc., another few grand.
Then the regular stuff you should be looking at on a car with that mileage... Brakes, rotors, shocks, bushings, ignition switch, etc., yet another few grand.
On top of the engine, doing all the work yourself, I can't see less than $5K in addition to the engine to really bring an unknown issues-and-high-mileage 996 up to to snuff.
Is the interior pristine? Body nearly perfect without any paintwork? Would you want to keep it when your done?
Last edited by pfbz; 07-20-2017 at 04:32 PM.
07-20-2017, 03:43 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
People are so quick to give up on a good project!!!!
You have a nice looking car there, with marketable asset in the nice BBS wheels. Good call to swap and use those to defray costs coming your way. I applaud you for taking this on.
In your shoes with so little $$ in the car at this point (and assuming a clean title, not salvage) then I'd look at putting a rebuilt engine in there that addresses a majority of the known issues with these engines. I have never heard of this shop or where in the USA you are, but you should look into their ebay ad. Cool that they will install it for you, just make sure you have all the details covered relative to the core charge as that adds $6500 to the fun:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-996-...lUBh2t&vxp=mtr
Granted there might be other things to sort, but if you don't end up needing to pay the core charge then I think you'll be well enough ahead of the game to address other items as well. Regardless of the 130k miles on the odometer, there is considerable value wth these cars in knowing the engine issues have been addressed and powerplant mileage reset.
Good luck!
You have a nice looking car there, with marketable asset in the nice BBS wheels. Good call to swap and use those to defray costs coming your way. I applaud you for taking this on.
In your shoes with so little $$ in the car at this point (and assuming a clean title, not salvage) then I'd look at putting a rebuilt engine in there that addresses a majority of the known issues with these engines. I have never heard of this shop or where in the USA you are, but you should look into their ebay ad. Cool that they will install it for you, just make sure you have all the details covered relative to the core charge as that adds $6500 to the fun:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-996-...lUBh2t&vxp=mtr
Granted there might be other things to sort, but if you don't end up needing to pay the core charge then I think you'll be well enough ahead of the game to address other items as well. Regardless of the 130k miles on the odometer, there is considerable value wth these cars in knowing the engine issues have been addressed and powerplant mileage reset.
Good luck!
07-20-2017, 05:04 PM
#64
I appreciate all of the responses guys. Lot of great viewpoints and insight.
I have narrowed down my options to either going with the reman engine (with 12 month warranty) or parting/selling as a roller. I don't want to do a rebuild and I don't want to go with a used engine that I have to upgrade and potentially have grenade on me.
I wouldn't be doing this to try and make money but I would like the value to remain close to what I have invested. In other words, can I drive it for a year or two and if I want to upgrade to a Turbo for example, can I sell it and get most of my money back? I'm OK losing say $5-8k for the trade off of enjoying the car for a while. My point mainly was I didn't want to invest $25-30k into a car that would be worth $10k when done, just for an exaggerated example.
I have narrowed down my options to either going with the reman engine (with 12 month warranty) or parting/selling as a roller. I don't want to do a rebuild and I don't want to go with a used engine that I have to upgrade and potentially have grenade on me.
I wouldn't be doing this to try and make money but I would like the value to remain close to what I have invested. In other words, can I drive it for a year or two and if I want to upgrade to a Turbo for example, can I sell it and get most of my money back? I'm OK losing say $5-8k for the trade off of enjoying the car for a while. My point mainly was I didn't want to invest $25-30k into a car that would be worth $10k when done, just for an exaggerated example.
07-20-2017, 05:27 PM
#65
Pro
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think with a reman engine, prices staying flat, you'll probably get $15K-$18K back out of this car when you sell. Assuming you're doing the work yourself - ballpark: Suspension will likely be a $2K to refresh. Clutch flywheel maybe another $2K, say another $2K for odds and ends (coolant tank, power, engine mounts, blah blah). So you'll be in it for $13K before the engine. Add the price of the engine, less the $15K (conservative) sale price - does that land you in the $5 - $8K trade loss?
With a reman engine, I'd hope you wouldn't have to replace the IMSB, but add more to the cost if you're planning to get this done.
With a reman engine, I'd hope you wouldn't have to replace the IMSB, but add more to the cost if you're planning to get this done.
07-20-2017, 05:42 PM
#66
Rennlist Member
You said you had around $7k invested with shipping and all. Minus approx $2k for selling the BBS wheels and putting stockers on... So at that point you'll have around $5k at stake.
These cars, properly sorted and in good running condition will bring around $17-$23k on the Bring A Trailer site. Standard silver color, manual tranny, remanufatured engine and will make yours likely sell at in the $20k ballpark. Search that site's past sales and see for yourself.
The core charge is the x-factor. If you don't have to pay one, I say go for it. If you do, then maybe you should consider selling it as a roller to someone who can do the job more economically and make it work. They will likely make good money on the car.
If you haven't already done so, I would suggest test driving a 996 so you know what awaits at the end...
These cars, properly sorted and in good running condition will bring around $17-$23k on the Bring A Trailer site. Standard silver color, manual tranny, remanufatured engine and will make yours likely sell at in the $20k ballpark. Search that site's past sales and see for yourself.
The core charge is the x-factor. If you don't have to pay one, I say go for it. If you do, then maybe you should consider selling it as a roller to someone who can do the job more economically and make it work. They will likely make good money on the car.
If you haven't already done so, I would suggest test driving a 996 so you know what awaits at the end...
07-20-2017, 05:54 PM
#67
Rennlist Member
surfing might be the best mechanic in the world, but reselling a 996 with an owner-installed reman engine is NOT going to bring premium pricing on BAT or anywhere else... Heck even the Raby engined, pro-shop installed, pristine and virtually no mile Boxster S they had on BAT a while ago brought next to nothing.
Yes, I know 986 vs. 996, but the reality is that most 996 buyers are going to be a bit gun shy on an owner-installed, no-name reman 996 when it comes to resale time. $20K is generous.
Personally, I'd take a higher mile, zero issue, IMS bearing replaced FACTORY engined 996 any day over the same car with a reman replacement engine, even at the same price.
If Surfer's engine turned out to be good, I'd be encouraging him all the way to rebuild/replace anything and everything else on the car to have a great driver that he could sell down the road for near his investment. But blown 996 engines just flip the equation...
Yes, I know 986 vs. 996, but the reality is that most 996 buyers are going to be a bit gun shy on an owner-installed, no-name reman 996 when it comes to resale time. $20K is generous.
Personally, I'd take a higher mile, zero issue, IMS bearing replaced FACTORY engined 996 any day over the same car with a reman replacement engine, even at the same price.
If Surfer's engine turned out to be good, I'd be encouraging him all the way to rebuild/replace anything and everything else on the car to have a great driver that he could sell down the road for near his investment. But blown 996 engines just flip the equation...
07-20-2017, 05:58 PM
#68
I think with a reman engine, prices staying flat, you'll probably get $15K-$18K back out of this car when you sell. Assuming you're doing the work yourself - ballpark: Suspension will likely be a $2K to refresh. Clutch flywheel maybe another $2K, say another $2K for odds and ends (coolant tank, power, engine mounts, blah blah). So you'll be in it for $13K before the engine. Add the price of the engine, less the $15K (conservative) sale price - does that land you in the $5 - $8K trade loss?
With a reman engine, I'd hope you wouldn't have to replace the IMSB, but add more to the cost if you're planning to get this done.
With a reman engine, I'd hope you wouldn't have to replace the IMSB, but add more to the cost if you're planning to get this done.
The engine is $8500 and everything is done including upgraded IMS and RMS. The car itself owes me $7k and then say $5k in incidentals. Clutch was done 4k miles ago according to Carfax but I'll see when I get to it.
Labor I'll do myself. That gets me to $20,500. I am never 100% confident but I'd bet with a couple hours detailing it, all receipts for parts and engine, I'd be able to get close to $20k out of the car within the next 2 years unless the prices drop off like crazy.
So if my math isn't too fuzzy (you guys know better than I do), I should be close to even money barring any major issues that I can enjoy for a few years.
The flipside to this coin was selling the car off as is and probably getting my money back or making a few bucks and moving on to a different car.
07-20-2017, 06:41 PM
#69
Pro
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps you're right and I hope you are. Maybe if you can demonstrate years of trouble free ownership after the engine swap. But I was thinking 130K miles on the chassis + home engine swap would not be in your favor. I hope I'm wrong, and I think you have a great candidate for an engine swap.
Even though I enjoy driving the car, there's a niggling fear that some bad is going to happen. To have an engine that I know has failure points addressed, is a nice position to be in. Hence, I'd go roller + rebuild if I could do it over. Good luck either way, sounds like you were pretty smart about the purchase, so a good start nonetheless.
Even though I enjoy driving the car, there's a niggling fear that some bad is going to happen. To have an engine that I know has failure points addressed, is a nice position to be in. Hence, I'd go roller + rebuild if I could do it over. Good luck either way, sounds like you were pretty smart about the purchase, so a good start nonetheless.
07-20-2017, 07:08 PM
#70
Three Wheelin'
You are being AWFULLY optimistic about your resale price in a few years. $13k-$15k with owner installed motor is about where you will end up.
High mileage 997s are already in the low 20k range. And between 996 and 997, 95/100 people will take 997.
People have bought very well sorted 996s with full maintenance records and updates for mid to high teens. You will have a VERY high mileage 996 (by 996 standards) with home-swapped motor and a story.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Porsche...RZXAIz&vxp=mtr
High mileage 997s are already in the low 20k range. And between 996 and 997, 95/100 people will take 997.
People have bought very well sorted 996s with full maintenance records and updates for mid to high teens. You will have a VERY high mileage 996 (by 996 standards) with home-swapped motor and a story.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Porsche...RZXAIz&vxp=mtr
07-20-2017, 07:46 PM
#71
Pro
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 608
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Prices are a bit higher on BAT. Low mileage examples are going to 20+. The higher mileage stuff in the mid teens. I think the OP can demonstrate trouble free history after install, it might benefit the price if it does have the major failure points addressed.
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/200...911-carrera-3/
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/199...e-911-carrera/
Go drive a 996 before deciding if it's worth the loss or you want to flip. After having driven one for a while, I don't know if I could stomach not having a p-car in the garage. And the 996 is the cheapest way in to the 911. I know it's not the same, but I was bent on getting a Subie WRX STI before I got the 996. I know it's not the same, but with the STI at 305HP & 3400lbs - they should be close on paper. The STI felt like a bloated vague pig vs the 996, and I have a cab!
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/200...911-carrera-3/
http://bringatrailer.com/listing/199...e-911-carrera/
Go drive a 996 before deciding if it's worth the loss or you want to flip. After having driven one for a while, I don't know if I could stomach not having a p-car in the garage. And the 996 is the cheapest way in to the 911. I know it's not the same, but I was bent on getting a Subie WRX STI before I got the 996. I know it's not the same, but with the STI at 305HP & 3400lbs - they should be close on paper. The STI felt like a bloated vague pig vs the 996, and I have a cab!
07-20-2017, 08:13 PM
#72
You are being AWFULLY optimistic about your resale price in a few years. $13k-$15k with owner installed motor is about where you will end up.
High mileage 997s are already in the low 20k range. And between 996 and 997, 95/100 people will take 997.
People have bought very well sorted 996s with full maintenance records and updates for mid to high teens. You will have a VERY high mileage 996 (by 996 standards) with home-swapped motor and a story.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Porsche...RZXAIz&vxp=mtr
High mileage 997s are already in the low 20k range. And between 996 and 997, 95/100 people will take 997.
People have bought very well sorted 996s with full maintenance records and updates for mid to high teens. You will have a VERY high mileage 996 (by 996 standards) with home-swapped motor and a story.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2005-Porsche...RZXAIz&vxp=mtr
07-20-2017, 08:15 PM
#73
Perhaps you're right and I hope you are. Maybe if you can demonstrate years of trouble free ownership after the engine swap. But I was thinking 130K miles on the chassis + home engine swap would not be in your favor. I hope I'm wrong, and I think you have a great candidate for an engine swap.
Even though I enjoy driving the car, there's a niggling fear that some bad is going to happen. To have an engine that I know has failure points addressed, is a nice position to be in. Hence, I'd go roller + rebuild if I could do it over. Good luck either way, sounds like you were pretty smart about the purchase, so a good start nonetheless.
Even though I enjoy driving the car, there's a niggling fear that some bad is going to happen. To have an engine that I know has failure points addressed, is a nice position to be in. Hence, I'd go roller + rebuild if I could do it over. Good luck either way, sounds like you were pretty smart about the purchase, so a good start nonetheless.
07-20-2017, 08:41 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
No one knows what a 996 will be worth in 3 or 4 years...Your car's value will go down as the miles go up!
I'm looking at a pristine 99 with less than 40K on the clock for $19K.
I'm looking at a pristine 99 with less than 40K on the clock for $19K.
07-20-2017, 09:32 PM
#75
You guys are right it's probably not worth the money. Then again, maybe it's not that big of a deal what the car is worth and I'll just do the project to say I swapped an 911 motor. Nice one to add to my list!
This is is a great forum - I really appreciate all of the thoughtful and helpful comments so far.
This is is a great forum - I really appreciate all of the thoughtful and helpful comments so far.