Another GT-2 backdating Q-- specs???
11-18-2003, 11:36 AM
#1
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Another GT-2 backdating Q-- specs???
Gang:
I have searched the archives and found bits of info, but... does anyone have detailed specs for the last iteration of the 993 GT-2 Clubsport?
That would be with the Evo boost levels. Need weight, gear ratios, i.e., as much info as possible. Thanks to the availability of a turbo motor, I am thinking of turning my '95 RS into a GT-2 Street (assuming that I can sell my 3.8 engine and G/50-32 tranny). I have most of the GT-2 body kit gathering dust in my garage.
Getting a backdated clone classified as a stock-class racer by PCA would require the usual mountain of supporting data. Since some 50 examples of the GT-2 homologation special were built from 1997 on, this shouldn't be an impossible task. However, I am finding the info posted on the Web to be very unreliable.
TIA,
Lee in D.C.
I have searched the archives and found bits of info, but... does anyone have detailed specs for the last iteration of the 993 GT-2 Clubsport?
That would be with the Evo boost levels. Need weight, gear ratios, i.e., as much info as possible. Thanks to the availability of a turbo motor, I am thinking of turning my '95 RS into a GT-2 Street (assuming that I can sell my 3.8 engine and G/50-32 tranny). I have most of the GT-2 body kit gathering dust in my garage.
Getting a backdated clone classified as a stock-class racer by PCA would require the usual mountain of supporting data. Since some 50 examples of the GT-2 homologation special were built from 1997 on, this shouldn't be an impossible task. However, I am finding the info posted on the Web to be very unreliable.
TIA,
Lee in D.C.
11-18-2003, 03:06 PM
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Was the GT2 based on a narrow or wide body? Does it really matter since you are adding the flares on anyway?
Let me know how your project progresses. I may be down that road one day also.
Thanks
Let me know how your project progresses. I may be down that road one day also.
Thanks
11-18-2003, 03:28 PM
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Hi Greg:
The 993 GT (it actually says 911 GT in the script on the rear in most models) was based on the narrow body. The one you want is the Clubsport Evo, which was an RS shell with the Matter cage, kill switch, and assorted track-day goodies
I have found some interesting stuff in Europe on the car. Particularly useful was the Flat6 forum site in the U.K. Authentic factory GT cars command a very high price today-- like $160-180,000 Euros--which strikes me as a lot of money even for a car that had a production run of only 50 street examples. I'm not into the collector thing myself. Just looking for something to do with the GT 2 bodykit I have sitting around.
If Cuzzin' Bill just would step up and buy my RS engine, I could begin work on my next science project. Trouble is, Cuzzin' Bill negotiates from the Shiite Buyers' Manual. Oh well...
Lee
The 993 GT (it actually says 911 GT in the script on the rear in most models) was based on the narrow body. The one you want is the Clubsport Evo, which was an RS shell with the Matter cage, kill switch, and assorted track-day goodies
I have found some interesting stuff in Europe on the car. Particularly useful was the Flat6 forum site in the U.K. Authentic factory GT cars command a very high price today-- like $160-180,000 Euros--which strikes me as a lot of money even for a car that had a production run of only 50 street examples. I'm not into the collector thing myself. Just looking for something to do with the GT 2 bodykit I have sitting around.
If Cuzzin' Bill just would step up and buy my RS engine, I could begin work on my next science project. Trouble is, Cuzzin' Bill negotiates from the Shiite Buyers' Manual. Oh well...
Lee
11-18-2003, 08:05 PM
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I was going to mention the flat-6 site.
Also there is a dealer in the North East that has a 993 GT2. Sloan cars or something like that. Arena red, almost no miles and asking close to $200K
Have you gotten confirmation that a 993GT2 would be a B stock car yet? Or is this what the research is for?
LOL wrt Bill.
Also there is a dealer in the North East that has a 993 GT2. Sloan cars or something like that. Arena red, almost no miles and asking close to $200K
Have you gotten confirmation that a 993GT2 would be a B stock car yet? Or is this what the research is for?
LOL wrt Bill.
11-18-2003, 10:26 PM
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The GT (street version) was based on a turbo body with 1.2/1.3" plastic flares, aluminum doors and hood, thin glass and plastic wing. The clubsport package included cage harness, battery switch, fire extinguisher. Weight was 2845. 9:31 ring and pinion. I've done most of this conversion to my 993tt. Note, the aluminum doors are no longer available from the factory, and most used one have been carved up. They are 18K DM if Porsche motorsports could get them.
I'm not quite sure what you mean by evo, as that was the GT 2 race application. The street GT ran a Motronic ecu and was very similar to the 993tt except for twin oil coolers. Boost was 13 psi for 430 hp.
The solid lifter cam and K 24 turbos with the Tag 3.8 ecu will yield about 450 w/3.8 mm restrictors. I'm guessing you will not be running restrictors so figure around 520 hp. What other specific info do you need?
I'm not quite sure what you mean by evo, as that was the GT 2 race application. The street GT ran a Motronic ecu and was very similar to the 993tt except for twin oil coolers. Boost was 13 psi for 430 hp.
The solid lifter cam and K 24 turbos with the Tag 3.8 ecu will yield about 450 w/3.8 mm restrictors. I'm guessing you will not be running restrictors so figure around 520 hp. What other specific info do you need?
11-18-2003, 10:58 PM
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Are you absolutely sure the '96 introductory street GT was based on the widebody? It has the 993RS nose and rear bumper cover as far as I can tell--guess I'll have to brush up on my German and get some guidance from the factory.
Re parts-- Aside from an engine, no problemo. I have the aluminum hood and doors, the flares, rockers, and cutout fenders (spare set). Have the thin glass, etc. Car already has a cage, Recaros, GT-2 Evo hub carriers, dual oil coolers, and lots of other suspension enhancements.
Need to know the gear ratios on the GT 2 transmission (well, the "911 GT" to be correct). I suspect the gears were taller than the close-ratio RS gearbox. The T-T tranny also had a larger housing and any ultra-correct conversion would use that as a base, though I know of folks who have mated the turbo motor to a 993 C2 tranny, added a differential cooler, and done fine. (A GT3 pressure plate is also advised). I have the RS clutch/flywheel installed.
The Evo I refer to is (I think) the very last 1998 homologated street version of the GT2 Evo race car. The base street car had, as you say, 430 h.p. thanks to the boost being bumped from .8 to .9 bar. As an option you could get a kit good for 450 h.p. The street Evos with Motronics had 480 h.p., as far as I know. I assume this version had the sturdier Evo axles, as well, but I'm not sure. The TAGtronics engine management was only for the race cars.
(Note to Greg: B Stock would be ideal, A Stock less so. But hey, the trick is to get it classified at all. It's doable, but time-consuming).
Thx for your help,
Lee in D.C.
Re parts-- Aside from an engine, no problemo. I have the aluminum hood and doors, the flares, rockers, and cutout fenders (spare set). Have the thin glass, etc. Car already has a cage, Recaros, GT-2 Evo hub carriers, dual oil coolers, and lots of other suspension enhancements.
Need to know the gear ratios on the GT 2 transmission (well, the "911 GT" to be correct). I suspect the gears were taller than the close-ratio RS gearbox. The T-T tranny also had a larger housing and any ultra-correct conversion would use that as a base, though I know of folks who have mated the turbo motor to a 993 C2 tranny, added a differential cooler, and done fine. (A GT3 pressure plate is also advised). I have the RS clutch/flywheel installed.
The Evo I refer to is (I think) the very last 1998 homologated street version of the GT2 Evo race car. The base street car had, as you say, 430 h.p. thanks to the boost being bumped from .8 to .9 bar. As an option you could get a kit good for 450 h.p. The street Evos with Motronics had 480 h.p., as far as I know. I assume this version had the sturdier Evo axles, as well, but I'm not sure. The TAGtronics engine management was only for the race cars.
(Note to Greg: B Stock would be ideal, A Stock less so. But hey, the trick is to get it classified at all. It's doable, but time-consuming).
Thx for your help,
Lee in D.C.
Last edited by DCLee; 11-19-2003 at 11:25 AM.
11-19-2003, 12:35 AM
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As a previous owner of 993 GT2 street version. i belive the gear ratio of those those car are the same as 993 TT or 993 TT S.
The 993 GT2 EV0 version or 98 spec. (street version) was rated 450 hp. It just got bigger turbos and Motronics remapped.just like the same powerkit upgrade like euro 993 turbo S.
Not sure about the boost level of those 98 spec 993GT2 450hp street car, but i understand its the same and my 430hp as .9 BAR.
The 993 GT2 EV0 version or 98 spec. (street version) was rated 450 hp. It just got bigger turbos and Motronics remapped.just like the same powerkit upgrade like euro 993 turbo S.
Not sure about the boost level of those 98 spec 993GT2 450hp street car, but i understand its the same and my 430hp as .9 BAR.
Originally posted by DCLee
Are you absolutely sure the '96 introductory street GT was based on the widebody? It has the 993RS nose and rear bumper cover as far as I can tell--guess I'll have to brush up on my German and get some guidance from the factory.
Re parts-- Aside from an engine, no problemo. I have the aluminum hood and doors, the flares, rockers, and cutout fenders (spare set). Have the thin glass, etc. Car already has a cage, Recaros, GT-2 Evo hub carriers, dual oil coolers, and lots of other suspension enhancements.
Need to know the gear ratios on the GT 2 transmission (well, the "911 GT" to be correct). I suspect the gears were taller than the close-ration RS gearbox. The T-T tranny also had a larger housing and any ultra-correct conversion would use that as a base, though I know of folks who have mated the turbo motor to a 993 C2 tranny, added a differential cooler, and done fine. (A GT3 pressure plate is also advised). I have the RS clutch/flywheel installed.
The Evo I refer to is (I think) the very last 1998 homologated street version of the GT2 Evo race car. The base street car had, as you say, 430 h.p. thanks to the boost being bumped from .8 to .9. As an option you could get a kit good for 450 h.p. The street Evos with Motronics had 480 h.p., as far as I know. I assume this version had the sturdier Evo axles, as well, but I'm not sure. The TAGtronics engine management was only for the race cars.
(Note to Greg: B Stock would be ideal, A Stock less so. But hey, the trick is to get it classified at all. It's doable, but time-consuming).
Thx for your help,
Lee in D.C.
Are you absolutely sure the '96 introductory street GT was based on the widebody? It has the 993RS nose and rear bumper cover as far as I can tell--guess I'll have to brush up on my German and get some guidance from the factory.
Re parts-- Aside from an engine, no problemo. I have the aluminum hood and doors, the flares, rockers, and cutout fenders (spare set). Have the thin glass, etc. Car already has a cage, Recaros, GT-2 Evo hub carriers, dual oil coolers, and lots of other suspension enhancements.
Need to know the gear ratios on the GT 2 transmission (well, the "911 GT" to be correct). I suspect the gears were taller than the close-ration RS gearbox. The T-T tranny also had a larger housing and any ultra-correct conversion would use that as a base, though I know of folks who have mated the turbo motor to a 993 C2 tranny, added a differential cooler, and done fine. (A GT3 pressure plate is also advised). I have the RS clutch/flywheel installed.
The Evo I refer to is (I think) the very last 1998 homologated street version of the GT2 Evo race car. The base street car had, as you say, 430 h.p. thanks to the boost being bumped from .8 to .9. As an option you could get a kit good for 450 h.p. The street Evos with Motronics had 480 h.p., as far as I know. I assume this version had the sturdier Evo axles, as well, but I'm not sure. The TAGtronics engine management was only for the race cars.
(Note to Greg: B Stock would be ideal, A Stock less so. But hey, the trick is to get it classified at all. It's doable, but time-consuming).
Thx for your help,
Lee in D.C.
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11-19-2003, 02:31 AM
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I picked up a car at the factory in 10/95 and saw the GT and a GT2 being tested at Weissach by Jurgen Barth. I remember the engineer telling me it was based on the new 993 Turbo. In"Excellance" 08/95 were Paul Sloniger tested a GT. Under bodywork he states "Based on the 911 turbo with 3 cm plastic fender extensions.." I agree the front facia is 993. I tried to use the RS front spoiler on my 993 turbo and it doesn't work without a lot of body shop fabrication.
Transmission ratios are the same as the 993tt. The GT had 285/35/18 rear tires which gave it a slightly higher ratio. The GT clutch is the same as a 964/993 RS.
Transmission ratios are the same as the 993tt. The GT had 285/35/18 rear tires which gave it a slightly higher ratio. The GT clutch is the same as a 964/993 RS.
11-19-2003, 02:44 AM
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Originally posted by JJayB
I picked up a car at the factory in 10/95 and saw the GT and a GT2 being tested at Weissach by Jurgen Barth. I remember the engineer telling me it was based on the new 993 Turbo. In"Excellance" 08/95 were Paul Sloniger tested a GT. Under bodywork he states "Based on the 911 turbo with 3 cm plastic fender extensions.." I agree the front facia is 993. I tried to use the RS front spoiler on my 993 turbo and it doesn't work without a lot of body shop fabrication.
Transmission ratios are the same as the 993tt. The GT had 285/35/18 rear tires which gave it a slightly higher ratio. The GT clutch is the same as a 964/993 RS.
I picked up a car at the factory in 10/95 and saw the GT and a GT2 being tested at Weissach by Jurgen Barth. I remember the engineer telling me it was based on the new 993 Turbo. In"Excellance" 08/95 were Paul Sloniger tested a GT. Under bodywork he states "Based on the 911 turbo with 3 cm plastic fender extensions.." I agree the front facia is 993. I tried to use the RS front spoiler on my 993 turbo and it doesn't work without a lot of body shop fabrication.
Transmission ratios are the same as the 993tt. The GT had 285/35/18 rear tires which gave it a slightly higher ratio. The GT clutch is the same as a 964/993 RS.
11-19-2003, 06:29 AM
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My thoughts on the "EVO boost levels" - whilst it was widely quoted that the 430PS option ran at 0.9 bar opposed to 0.8bar of the 408PS version, it must be noted that the boost did vary, like all these Motronic turbos, accross the rev range. I presumed that the 0.9bar was an approximate figure that one would see at peak torque on overboost, with the 430PS being made on around 0.7-0.75bar. Not sure how this translates for your racing formula, but potentially if you are allowed to use this peak 0.9bar THROUGHOUT the rev range then you will be able to get some nice peak power numbers.
