J.Seven

I´ve just saw on a Magazine a beautiful Polar Silver 993TT from 1995 for sale and it seems a very good deal. Asking price is 49000 Euros with total 161000Km/99820Miles. It had three owners, but the last owner had the car for the last six years. It had an engine rebuild 6000Km/ 3720 Miles ago made by a official Porsche dealer and the repairs inclueded engine rebuild, new clutch, breaks among other minor things. Total repair build was 25000 Euros, and they have all the bills to prove it. Car has the mantainance book in order all made by Porsche and according to seller never had a crash. It has litronic, CD radio and new Brigstone tires too.

Does this seem to good to be true ? Car is in Munich/ Germany, so I would have to take a plane to see the car and make the deal. I´ve already asked the seller to send me copies of all this repairs and bills by fax together with some more pictures of the car.

I know 95 models had some bugs that were corrected on the 97 model. My main consern is the gearbox, I read here that the first and second gear were stronger on the 97 model. I would be interest on upgrading the engine power. Wanted to start by a new ECU and oil cooler, good for 440/450Hp. I know there are several aftermarket options, but I heard that the 96 models couldn´t be chipped, is that a problem for 95 models too? Later I was planning to put K24 or hibryd turbos. Thanks in advance, and sorry for the long post. I´ll go now to the 993Turbo.com to see what are the things to be checked on a used car, but I really would like to hear what you experts have to say about this.

J.Seven

SPR

I would go for a 97 but that's me. I would really be worried about having the motor rebuilt already. It would point to abuse or something offhand. Also I don't know where you are but you might worry about importing and the like duty wise etc. A couple of other things to worry about is the 1st gear issue on the older cars. Sounds like you want to do the normal set of mods. I would take more time and look around more, and not get overtly hot on any one car, but who knows. Also that is a lot of miles.

ca993twin

I'm trying to do a quick translation of Euros to dollars, and even with the rebuild and all, this doesn't sound like a fantastic deal. It sounds like a fair deal, if the interior and all the rest of the bits are also properly cared for.

In the USA (where we're one model year behind), the 96TT (mine was built 3/95) does have a slightly less robust first gear than the 97. A small matter, since neither of them will withstand a dragrace launch. The 97 ECU (DME) can be more easily reprogrammed than a 1996. If you are really considering serious modifications to the car, I would be on the lookout for a car that already had been properly modified. Best of luck.

J.Seven

For our market it´s a good deal regarding price. I will have to pay 10000 euros more in taxes and transport, so the final price for this car would be 59000 Euros. It´s alot of money for a 8 year car, it´s almost nonsense, but those lines and power are calling me more and more Round here all the 993TT from 95 are marked at 65000 Euros, but you get one year warranty for engine, gearbox, and some eletrical parts. Anyway the 993TT in Germany had the engine rebuild, new clutch and son on, so I don´t believe I´ll have big problem so soon, and the rush of buying one, is making me me blind, I´ll have to calm down a little and take my time on this.

I´m afraid of byuing a tuned car, even if it was properly tuned, because this always show, that all mechanical components have been used to its limits, like the gearbox engine and so on, so the general mechanic may have been exposed to some hard use. I prefer to buy a stock car, and performed all the engine upgrades after.

Is it dangerous to fully press the accelarator in first gear? I´m not saying dropping the clutch at 4000rpm, but sure you can put the first gear and press fully the right pedal, withouth the risk of destroying the gearbox I know it´s not an everyday prosedure , but sure sometimes I will do it.

J.Seven

ca993twin

Its the "sidestepping the clutch at 4000 RPM" launches that will twist the first gear sets in either the early or later gearboxes. Normal, high speed driving will not hurt either one, and that can include rapid starts, within limits. Fully punching it in first gear, once moving, is never an issue, at least for me.

The extra cost for programming an early ECU is the $1500 cost of purchasing a later ECU, unless you are able to find a used, already programmed ECU like I did.

And yes, the lines and performance of these cars are stunning... enough to make you ignore all common sense. You only live once...

J.Seven

ca993twin, I quite didn´t understand what you mean by "The extra cost for programming an early ECU is the $1500 cost of purchasing a later ECU" Do I have to spend $1500 for a new ECU and than a few bucks more for the chip? Or if I buy a later ECU for $1500, it comes already with 440Hp mapped?

FVD on their first stage provide a complete ECU (in exchange) and sport intake filter for 3000Euros. This is good for 440Hp, this would be my first step.

If I buy a 97 model, will the upgrade be much cheaper? Thanks in advance.

J.Seven

ca993twin

J.,

Sorry for my poor grammar. Normally, the cost for an after market program of a "programmable (97)" ECU is around $2500. If you have an early ECU, you will need to buy a new 97 ECU, and send that in for programming. Most aftermarket programmers won't take a 96 ECU in exchange. On that FVD deal, if you look closely, I'll bet it says that they will need the later ECU in exchange. So, for the 97, the cost would be 3000 euros. For the 95/96, it will be 3000 Euros plus the cost of a programmable ECU (~$1500).

There are, however, some outfits that claim they can rechip the early ECUs. This has met with some skepticism on this board. Still may be worth looking into, if you get that 95. UniChip, I think, and another that skips my mind.

J.Seven

ca993twin, thanks for your help on this issue. Your information put the 95/96 models out of my interest. Anyway, I´ve seen some 95 and 96 cars with 430Hp, I believe this is the factory upgrade. Can I have these cars chipped without the need to buy a 97 ECU? If they have 430Hp from factory, maybe the ECU is already suitable to any upgrade like 97 cars
Do you know the code for the factory 430Hp or 450Hp?
Thanks.

J.Seven

ca993twin

I think that if you have a early car with an upgraded ECU, it will then already have the programmable, late ECU. Any car with more than 408 HP should have a different ECU than stock. Don't let my comments about the early cars scare you off... in the worst case, the difference is really the $1500 ECU. However, the 1997 TTs have a certain "cachet" that tend to fetch extra dollars. For me, it wasn't worth it. I bought a mid-mileage car (49,000 miles, now 58,000 miles), and the car runs as new. BTW, my car had a transmission rebuild under warranty long ago, and they installed the later first gear set. So with the ECU and gearset, my car is essentially updated to 1997 specs. Well, plus 40 HP or so, with the Gemballa program. As another aside, I will upgrade my turbos when they are ready for a rebuild (they typically last about 75,000 miles). I can do a nice upgrade to k16/k24 hybrids for about $1600/pair. At that time, I will also do an S aux cooler and a 5-bar FPR. Also, my factory stock shocks are toast, so time for a suspension upgrade as well. All things you should throw into your hopper for consideration on your new car.

J.Seven

ca993twin, what were the cause for the transmission failure? Did you notice anything before it happened?

Gemballa is another tuner that I was thinking. I know very well TTP, and they use the same ECU. Can you give me some feed back on the Gemballa ECU, was the power increase very, very noticeble? It made a difference at higher or low revs, was it worth it? I believe your ECU must be good for 440Hp. Don´t you need a oil cooler urgently? Sorry for so many questions, but these are subjetcs with great interest for me. Again and again, thanks in advance

J.Seven

ca993twin

J.Seven,

Th transmission work was done long before I owned the car. The original owner of my car was Porsche Cars North America, where it was used for car shows and magazine test rides. I have a suspicion that my very car was the one that Hurley Haywood used to set the 0 to 60 time of 3.6 seconds. That will certainly bend first gear. The symptom is gear whine.

The Gemballa ECU was the first thing I did to my car, and I really didn't have much experience with the car as stock. I did notice that I read .8 BAR on the boost gauge much sooner and faster than when it was stock.

If I were doing any sustained high speed/high boost driving, I'd certainly need that aux cooler now. But, I really am an old fart, and don't drive the car terribly hard. I also keep a close watch on the oil temp, and allow the car to cool down if it gets near 9:00 or so.

I enjoy your questions, and hope I'm not steering you wrong.

Autobahn

J Seven,

the 430hp factory upgrade consists of a new DME/ECU and an additional oil cooler. If you see a 95 430hp car then it has a new ECU fitted.

TB993tt

Autobahn
The question is, does the 430ps option X50 car have the later "flash programmable" chip or the '95/'96 chip which are very difficult to find ? FWIW My guess is that a '95/'96 X50 430ps car has the non flash programmable chip.
ca993twin
I do feel you are (understandably after what happened to your car) being overly cautious about the 1st gear issue. I do harsh 1st gear starts on a fairly regular basis with no problems to date, just plenty of wheelspin and frantic hand and leg movements in the cockpit !
J Seven
Gemballa's ECUs are all done by TTP or the electronic engineer who works with Pietz.

J.Seven

TB993tt. TTP use to have the eletronic Guru in Porsche world, it was Gunther Mendl, but now he is working with Sportec exclusively.

I wont buy a 95/96 model, I prefer to go buy a the late model. The difference in price is not huge, so I think it´s a better deal.

Can I measure the clutch wear by pressing the clutch pedal? I´m asking this because yesterday I test drove a 993TT that had a very smooth clutch pedal, much smoother than the ones I drove before. Is this a sign that the clutch is in good mechanical state?

J.Seven

TB993tt

J Seven
Interesting news about Gunther M.
A little known fact - the '95/early '96 cars had reinforced GT2 racing spec conrods before it was deemed a lower spec would be adequate.
I worry for people thinking of buying one of these 6+ year old thoroughbreds and are worried about having to put in a new clutch - I realise that because of what I have created, my car consumes big$$$$$$, but these cars are not for the faint hearted in many respects.