Help on a highly modified TT
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,498
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From: North Dakota
I know this is hard to believe, but the Ruf specs for the Turbo R claim a 205 mph top speed (with the proper gearing). It takes a TON of HP to move a 993 to that speed... I think more than the Turbo R's conservative 490. Have I dreamed that up? Is that claim real or exaggerated?
Scott: that wasn't Andial kool-aid, it was that awful oatmeal beer you tried to force me to drink.
Scott: that wasn't Andial kool-aid, it was that awful oatmeal beer you tried to force me to drink.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Westlake Village, Ca. Lake Tahoe, Ca.
This is just for fun Scott.. 
The myth of Andial only using Porsche parts is....a myth. Just like any other tuner, they use what is available to suit their particular needs, sometimes they are Porsche parts and sometimes they are not, doesn't make them worse.
From the typical 3.8 ltr twin plug Andial conversion...Here are a few things I can think of..
- The 3.8 Ltr Piston & Cylinders are not Porsche, they are Mahle, and don't have a Porsche part number
- Intercooler, you said it right
- Rods, you said it right
- Exhaust, it is not a Porsche exhaust or Mufflers, it is an aftermarket one
- ECU, you said it right, either FVD or Thielert depending on the version
- Ignition signal splitter, it is an Andial fabbed one, Porsche don't use them
- Camshafts..They are indeed using Porsche RS cams I think, Those cams don't take you to a 550HP engine.
- Turbos..There is no "GT1 turbo" with a Porsche part number, there is a KKK16 or a KKK24, the GT1 is a hybrid, modified turbo, even if the 993GT1 raced with them.
- I would be surprised if the valve guides have porsche part numbers.
From the above it is very clear that someone on these boards has originated this myth about Andial..
On the R Turbo...They do use almost all Porsche part numbers, the RS cams, they use factory ECU, they use factory Pistons and cylinders, they use factory ignition, factory intercooler, factory rods, non factory exhaust and that's about it I think?
As for performance, I would be surprised and very disappointed if an Andial 3.8 twin plug goes as fast as an R Turbo, yet this is the only data we have on the forum. We have been asking for someone with an Andial engine to please post some data but with no luck. Butt dynos are unfortunately not very accurate.
It should in fact be much much faster than an R Turbo!
The myth of Andial only using Porsche parts is....a myth. Just like any other tuner, they use what is available to suit their particular needs, sometimes they are Porsche parts and sometimes they are not, doesn't make them worse.
From the typical 3.8 ltr twin plug Andial conversion...Here are a few things I can think of..
- The 3.8 Ltr Piston & Cylinders are not Porsche, they are Mahle, and don't have a Porsche part number
- Intercooler, you said it right
- Rods, you said it right
- Exhaust, it is not a Porsche exhaust or Mufflers, it is an aftermarket one
- ECU, you said it right, either FVD or Thielert depending on the version
- Ignition signal splitter, it is an Andial fabbed one, Porsche don't use them
- Camshafts..They are indeed using Porsche RS cams I think, Those cams don't take you to a 550HP engine.
- Turbos..There is no "GT1 turbo" with a Porsche part number, there is a KKK16 or a KKK24, the GT1 is a hybrid, modified turbo, even if the 993GT1 raced with them.
- I would be surprised if the valve guides have porsche part numbers.
From the above it is very clear that someone on these boards has originated this myth about Andial..
On the R Turbo...They do use almost all Porsche part numbers, the RS cams, they use factory ECU, they use factory Pistons and cylinders, they use factory ignition, factory intercooler, factory rods, non factory exhaust and that's about it I think?
As for performance, I would be surprised and very disappointed if an Andial 3.8 twin plug goes as fast as an R Turbo, yet this is the only data we have on the forum. We have been asking for someone with an Andial engine to please post some data but with no luck. Butt dynos are unfortunately not very accurate.
It should in fact be much much faster than an R Turbo!
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Steve, theoretically speaking, the R Turbo needs only ~ 470 fwhp to reach 205mph including all forms of drag so that is not really proof of having 500bhp..
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jan 2003
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From: North Dakota
Drifting
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Oceanside, CA
Yes. Heavy. More "road-hugging weight", as I recall from a 1950s Ford commercial on black and white TV. So this is a good thing.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,213
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From: Westlake Village CA.
Now I do not want to read through every post in the epic 60-130 thread, but why will no one believe people who have driven both cars on and off various tracks?
I realize J the F is a lawyer, so every time his lips move a lie is suspected, but what about Brian?
He's an former Army Ranger.
I realize J the F is a lawyer, so every time his lips move a lie is suspected, but what about Brian?
He's an former Army Ranger.
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Three Wheelin'
Joined: Aug 2006
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From: Here & There
Ahh, damned with faint praise again! Guys I knew in the 60's weren't exactly boy scouts, nor were they smart enough to be mechanical engineers. Otherwise they'd have done a bunk and gone to Toronto. Or failing that, would have avoided the combat ams entirely. Or failing that, would have kept their arms down when presented with an "opportunity to volunteer". Many would put lawyers far ahead on the sliding scale of something or other.
Jimmy posted "11.3 at 133 with Hoosier tires. The launch is really too brutal on the drive train for these to be meaningful." He didn't build a dragster. He built a car to compete with race cars on the street or the track and (hopefully) be bullet proof. Only time will tell about that.
Guys I knew in the 60's weren't exactly boy scouts, nor were they smart enough to be mechanical engineers. Otherwise they'd have done a bunk and gone to Toronto. Or failing that, would have avoided the combat ams entirely. Or failing that, would have kept their arms down when presented with an "opportunity to volunteer". Many would put lawyers far ahead on the sliding scale of something or other.Jimmy posted "11.3 at 133 with Hoosier tires. The launch is really too brutal on the drive train for these to be meaningful." He didn't build a dragster. He built a car to compete with race cars on the street or the track and (hopefully) be bullet proof. Only time will tell about that.
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But mid 130s+ trap is definitely what I would expect from a twin-plug 3.8TT with some lightweight parts and as good a driver as Jim is. RS cams and GT1 turbos give it away IMO..520s.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,213
Likes: 1
From: Westlake Village CA.
OK Jean you're pretty much spot on.
This is from the Alan Fielding car's build sheet:
Pistons /cylinder
Rods
Ecu and signal splitter
Mid weight clutch and flywheel
Intercooler
all have Andial part numbers
Valve guide intake 993 104 321 71
Valve guide exhaust (could not find a part number but it was listed as part of the twin plug machine work sublet and balancing and blueprinting of engine and oiling system.
Bi-turbo sport exhaust 993 310 0510 009
Turbo charger GT1 996 123 013 80 and 996 123 014 80
In all there are 11 pages of parts approximately 133 line items.
If anyone is interested I could scan the build sheet.
This is from the Alan Fielding car's build sheet:
Pistons /cylinder
Rods
Ecu and signal splitter
Mid weight clutch and flywheel
Intercooler
all have Andial part numbers
Valve guide intake 993 104 321 71
Valve guide exhaust (could not find a part number but it was listed as part of the twin plug machine work sublet and balancing and blueprinting of engine and oiling system.
Bi-turbo sport exhaust 993 310 0510 009
Turbo charger GT1 996 123 013 80 and 996 123 014 80
In all there are 11 pages of parts approximately 133 line items.
If anyone is interested I could scan the build sheet.
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Thanks Scott.
The turbocharger information is enlightening. I always read here in the past that the "Gt1" nomenclature was for a K16/K24 turbocharger, however this part number shows it is a KKK24 frame if I am not mistaken. These are the same turbos that were used on the 993GT2 3.6ltr version, but updated, and the 993GT1 540bhp (from memory)
I believe some 3.8 twin plug Andial engines used different build sheet, some had Techart exhaust option.
It would defnitely be interesting to have a scan of the buildsheet.. Please PM or email if you prefer.
Thks.
The turbocharger information is enlightening. I always read here in the past that the "Gt1" nomenclature was for a K16/K24 turbocharger, however this part number shows it is a KKK24 frame if I am not mistaken. These are the same turbos that were used on the 993GT2 3.6ltr version, but updated, and the 993GT1 540bhp (from memory)
I believe some 3.8 twin plug Andial engines used different build sheet, some had Techart exhaust option.
It would defnitely be interesting to have a scan of the buildsheet.. Please PM or email if you prefer.
Thks.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,213
Likes: 1
From: Westlake Village CA.
Sadly Amir could not find the build sheet on El Guapo. 
Yes I my car has the "Andial Sport Exhaust".
(Which I immediately removed. In a group with Rufus and Scott Sheply, I could not even tell if my car was running without looking at the tach.)
Yes I my car has the "Andial Sport Exhaust".
(Which I immediately removed. In a group with Rufus and Scott Sheply, I could not even tell if my car was running without looking at the tach.)
