ca993twin

The Andial 3.8 starts with a 5% increase in displacement, which yields a 5% increase in HP and torque. Further, the twin-plug tuning of the Andial probably allows for more aggressive timing which probably accounts for the rest of the power increase. Andial probably uses different cams than Ruf, but I don't know how to compare them. Since I "know" that Scott's car has more power than my Turbo R, I think I can feel it. But I may be fooling myself... i have quite the numb butt.

One of the best parts of the Turbo R is the Ruf suspension. I love it. Then I drove Scott's Andial, and he has the RS uprights... that is amazing, in the amount of compliance he has. But that is NOT an Andial thing, that's a Scott thing.

Rufus has 130,000 miles... 44,000 since the Turbo R conversion. Nary a problem (except for the K&N air filter, mentioned in another thread).

Either a Ruf Turbo R or an Andial 3.8 would be great cars... with the Andial holding the edge in HP, and the Ruf with an edge in reliability and "cachet" (you get to add all the Ruf tidbits).

bb993tt

Or, to put it more succinctly:

"If enough is good ... etc, etc.".

ScottMellor

Dearest Steve,
How did you come up with an edge to RUF in reliability and cachet?
Every part in an Andial conversion has a Porsche part number on it (except for the ECU perhaps). I
If you look at your own "If you own a RUF thread": those bloody things are common as dirt.
Andial? 19 remain. (Perhaps I confuse rarity and motorsports achievement with cachet.)
How many championships do RUF cars hold?
I give you that RUF has a WAY better marketing skillset, and you do get to have those really really heavy wheels and all of the RUF badged parts you can afford.



Now we all know I like to poke fun at Steve and his Rufaholicism. But I love him like the goofy older brother I never had.
Why else would I stop and wait for him to catch up at regular intervals on road trips?

Bradford

ca993twin

Scott, I think the key words in your post are "... only 19 remain". I think that goes to the reliability claim. But what can you expect from an engine built by three grumpy old geezers who are out of business?

neener, neener, neener.

What road trip? You always flake out. Do you wanna come up here and do the Fortuna to Red Bluff "outing" in about 2 weeks?

ScottMellor

Sorry.
19 out of the 21 built.
Ya can't blame the crashed cars on the builder.

As to road trips; Why would I ever let the truth get in the way of a good "Burn" post?

(In the spirit of full disclosure, in equal cars on equal tyres I could probably not keep up with Steve if it weren't for the fact he is so old he has to pull over to pee every 15 minutes)

pstoppani

You guys are a hoot

Jean

Best Technical Andial vs RUF debate ever read on Rennlist, please don't stop :-D The 15 minute pit stops should be mandatory in all Porsche fun trips, they are the most relieving part of the trip.

I would just say that RUF has more Porsche parts than Andial in their builds, or rather Andial has more non Porsche parts and so far, only available data shows the R Turbo's 500HP are faster than Andial's twin plug 3.8s.

993 770

Reserve wasn't met, wonder if it went outside of eBay?

Texas993

To add to the RUF v Andial conversation ... I agree the the above comments are funny and pretty accurate! I really appreciate both cars. The Andial that was for sale at RUF Dallas a couple of times was the only Andial that I have ever seen. While I never drove it, I did some runs with it while driving my RUF. The Andial was simply amazing and faster than my car on 93 gas. When it sat for sale in Dallas for a long time at a fantastic price, it was all that I could do to not buy it. But why would I need two? And I don't intend to sell my car.

I know everyone here agrees that they are both equally great cars. We are all lucky to have them!

ScottMellor

We have Toby for excruciatingly accurate technical analysis.

It all started on a drive up to Gorman. We were stopped for gas and some dude was admiring Steve' s car and Steve was explaining what it was. The guy glanced at Andi and saw the wheels and said, "Oh is that a RUF too." "No" says I, "it just has RUF wheels." And the guy said "Oh so kinda a "Wanna be?"
The next day after I got out of the ER for treatment of the aneurism, there was a "RUF wheels for sale" posting in the Rennlist classifieds.
I'd rather clean BBS Motorsports wheels with my tongue than experience THAT again.

Andial non Porsche parts: Carillo rods, intercooler (which is actually a thickened stock IC) and ecu?
What are the RUF non Porsche parts?

I'm goning to let Brian address your statement about Turbo Rs being faster than 3.8 TP A cars Jean!

V

bb993tt

With (basically) the same weight, gearing, tires and suspension the Andial certainly felt faster, especially accelerating out of slower corners. That's not just my opinion, it's also shared by every MMC pro and Rick DeMan, all of whom have driven both cars there. And that's with the fvd ecu in it. I'll drive it with the Thielert unit in it next week. Data? Nope ... and that train's left the station. And before anybody asks about a 60-130 time, MMC's not flat, which is one thing that makes it a good track, albeit a lousy place for that type of measurement.

Jean

This is just for fun Scott..

The myth of Andial only using Porsche parts is....a myth. Just like any other tuner, they use what is available to suit their particular needs, sometimes they are Porsche parts and sometimes they are not, doesn't make them worse.

From the typical 3.8 ltr twin plug Andial conversion...Here are a few things I can think of..

- The 3.8 Ltr Piston & Cylinders are not Porsche, they are Mahle, and don't have a Porsche part number
- Intercooler, you said it right
- Rods, you said it right
- Exhaust, it is not a Porsche exhaust or Mufflers, it is an aftermarket one
- ECU, you said it right, either FVD or Thielert depending on the version
- Ignition signal splitter, it is an Andial fabbed one, Porsche don't use them
- Camshafts..They are indeed using Porsche RS cams I think, Those cams don't take you to a 550HP engine.
- Turbos..There is no "GT1 turbo" with a Porsche part number, there is a KKK16 or a KKK24, the GT1 is a hybrid, modified turbo, even if the 993GT1 raced with them.
- I would be surprised if the valve guides have porsche part numbers.

From the above it is very clear that someone on these boards has originated this myth about Andial..

On the R Turbo...They do use almost all Porsche part numbers, the RS cams, they use factory ECU, they use factory Pistons and cylinders, they use factory ignition, factory intercooler, factory rods, non factory exhaust and that's about it I think?

As for performance, I would be surprised and very disappointed if an Andial 3.8 twin plug goes as fast as an R Turbo, yet this is the only data we have on the forum. We have been asking for someone with an Andial engine to please post some data but with no luck. Butt dynos are unfortunately not very accurate.

It should in fact be much much faster than an R Turbo!

ScottMellor

I'm the first to admit I drank a TON of the Andial koolaid.
All it took was a drive at Willow Springs with Jimmy the Felon.
I'll have a look at an Andial build sheet when I get to work.