TB993tt

This is the bit I am having difficulty understanding:

The graphs which Jussi showed us before showed the AIT increasing 36DegC (12DegC ambient) on a run up to 280kph. The run above he is saying that the AIT actually reduces from that 36DegC increase when the car is 20kph HOTTER at 300kph !!

How can the stock I/C do this ? MOD logged a stock 993tt at 28DegC over ambient at ~180mph at Bruntingthorpe...... I just don't see where the BTUs (produced for those acceleration numbers) are going ? It's cold fusion I tell you

Jussi - PLEASE can you do us the AIT graph up to 317kph ?

Stummel

what would be a "reasonable" power level for daily sustained usage in this way without rebuilding the engine and gearbox annually?

Jussi

That 700 power level is reasonable for everyday usage
because, in the car, there is throttle pedal by which you can adjust how much you want to use of its power level
My ECU adjusts AFR to be 1 between 800-3500 rpm(and 0.95@4000).. so it uses only very little gasoline because it burns it optimically and engine breathes very efficiently..

That reliablity and durability question/concern is in everybody's head. You can break your 400hp engine, 500hp engine, 600hp engine, 700hp engine, and so on, if you use it wrongly.

I can also drive my car normally (like 1.0L Nissan Micra ) and just use only max. 100hp of its power if I want.. but do I want.. that is another question which you might know the answer

Jussi

You might be right. There might be some measurement error in that K-Type element or wiring but now I can't publish any picture via that public picture server because my 0-300 picture downloadings might crashed that server

But I send that 0-317 measurement to you by email and you can publish it if you want
I also put pictures of thermoelement installation..

Stummel

Over here we have the digital driving style - WOT or slam on the brakes - nothing in between.

And we do that for 1 or 2 hours straight going between 100 and 300+ kph.

Doing that on a daily basis for like 20k to 40k kms a year.
And the Ring is near...

Stock Porsche will not break, at least a 993tt.

Jussi

In that case, I would recommend similar combination than mine BUT with that Secan or better IC.
That would be killer combo
Proper ECU tuning will take care of your engine. It will reduce boost pressures if needed and also adjusts timing if needed..
Get also that 911 special windscreen.. that should help about 10mph at +300kmh

Stummel

Thx.

I know it was no drag start but what is the quarter mile time of 11.1s and ET138 worth compared to the big 996tt?

vrus

Jussi,

That is an amazing engine combination you have there!!!! Very powerful car!!

Jussi

Thanks!
and it will be even better after I got IC like you have !
Also after that special 911 windscreen and probably also 997 "aero"headlights..
and new LW ceramic brakes and wheels should give more benefit..
but these are for next season..

Jussi

I have done aluminium intercooler tubes from turbos to IC. I think they also help a little compared to stock rubber ones..
I haven't any other aerodynamic mods than no mirrors and no wipers.
I have also video from that run but I haven't converted it yet from miniDVD to mpeg or else. I'll inform when I get it ready.

TB993tt

This statement sort of sums up my "Porsche hp" argument and is why there is always debate since some people don't appreciate what Porsche turbo engines are about .......

Unless there is a defect in a component a stock Porsche turbo engine will not break whatever you submit it to...... This is a fundamental reason why many of us have always been drawn to Porsche turbo products.

Certain Tuners attempt to emulate Porsche hp (which also almost definatively means Porsche reliability). In a 3.6l 993tt with the right components around 550hp can have Porsche reliability however the 750NM which accompanies the hp will severely stress the gearbox with 3rd gear failing prematurely.

Going over 550hp and having Porsche style engine reliability is not currently possible but if it is mainly road use then the engine can last a fair time.

Over 600hp is definately way out of Porsche reliability scope with race engine service schedules necessary if the power is exercised on the Autobahn or track.

Above 650hp is by and large rolling the dice IMO and as Jussi points out the owner must take responsibility for how long the engine lasts using his right foot. As far as tuners attempting to emulate Porsche hp/reliability brings to mind the RS Tuning 687hp/900NM 996/7tt engine which has such a level of componentry that it costs $150K !!!

I was talking with a Porsche racing pal who occasionally brings out "The Destroyer" for multi marque races. "The Destroyer" is a racing 993GT2 EVO with an RS Tuning Secan motor of around 630hp/820NM. Early in the car's life he thought he would save some money and not carry out the Porsche recommended maintenance at 20hrs -the relevant components failed in the very next outing $$$$$ ! We were talking recently and he was saying how it eats 3rd gear with such regularity that he had to run virtually a whole race going 2nd to 4th after 3rd died again......OK I accept that this is a racing anecdote but the point is these hp/tq levels are at the limit for these engines......
935racer I'm sure could add some valuable insight into reliability over 600hp

Jean

I am not sure I know but having spoken at length to some of the most experienced race team owners in the world, I know that running 1.2 Bar for too long is destruction on these engines, and I don't mean 24 hour races. The 24 hourraces are limited to 0.9 bar of boost with Secan intercoolers and all the Porsche EVO goodies (heads, P&C, 5 fuel pumps etc..). The engine is good for scrap after each race. In enduros the engine lasts 20-30hrs before needing a top end rebuild, at 1.1Bar. Those are all Secan, EVO heads, reinforced everything engines.

At the end of the day it does depend how long you drive it and how, and what are your expectations for your investment.

TB993TT is a daily driver on his car, he has had to rebuild his engine twice if I am not mistaken, with some of the finest tuning in the world, at a cost that most here would not even imagine.

I don't know if you have seen this video This is a wild car.. !
http://www.zatzy.com/if-story/The_IT...ry_trailer.wmv

It ran 140mph in the quartermile at 1.2 bar, and weighed 2800lbs or so, and had a state of the art engine build, with big GT35s Garretts, JE Pistons, custom intercoolers, special rocker arms, 7400 RPM limiter, thoroughly worked heads, GT3 oil pump, GT3 crank, and all the goodies.

Last time I cautioned the builder that his engine might blow up if he runs high boost at the 'Ring, he told me about all the good things done to it, which was true. An experience at the 'Ring at 1 Bar is on the video below.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtxBvKW7FA4

Result? Engine broken. Head was ripped apart with the GT35 turbo and manifold all together, this engine broke two times already and the tuner is a very knowledgeable guy.

There is no magic IMO, you want an engine that gives you a decent life expectancy, you keep that boost down, you want to impress like in the video above, boost it up, and pray, in less than 5 hours he broke his engine. I do not consider that an achievement. It all depends how you drive it.

I don't wish this to anyone who spends so much money on his engine without a race team back up, better be safe than sorry I guess.

Jussi

Those GT35s are much bigger than my little puppies (GT2871Rs) - it's easy to break the engine with that kind of flow if you don't have proper ECU mapping..

I don't see any concern in my case because I know my ECU tuner very well and I trust him.
I have sent my datalogging from that run to him and there wasn't any problem with heat and timing adjustment..
ECU checks whole time every variables like knock sensors, heat sensors, AFR etc and adjusts usable power level according to that.
Of course max horsepower reading can be lower if you are running at the edge of full power with extremely conditions like full boost & throtlle hours and at very hot weather. But that is normal - ECU's work is also to protect the engine.

It seems now that my old problem, too much flow(power), raised again.
My acceleration time from 300 to 317 wasn't so good that it could be
I'm now 90% sure that MAF gave again over 5 volts and messed up ECU tuning.
I haven't driven that +300 before and realised how huge is that wind resistance force above 300.
Unfortunately I haven't connected that MAF voltage channel to my datalogging even I had one free channel available, damn me
I have to repeat that test once again and check that thing but not on this season. Hopefully I'll do that early spring with all extras installed..

Stummel

in that light the CGT really shines as reasonable or even bargain...

TB993tt

Thanks for keeping us updated, I'm enjoying the ride with you even if we don't agree with everything

In light of what ? The expensive RS turbo motor